Speaker upgrades.

[Guest]

At last I've got my Targa which I'm absolutely exstatic about but one of the minor disappointments is that the hi-fi speakers sound a little weedy. The car's fitted with a Sony head (4x50w) unit so I suspect the speakers are the cause of poor sound quality.

Only the small top tweeters on the door & the rear parcel shelf speakers actually seem to work.

Could someone recommend a half decent set of speakers for the rear shelf & both the door speakers ? I'd want something that simply fit where the existing ones are. I don't want to break the bank, and I'd guess that I'd also need to invest in a small amplifier to get all 6 speakers working ????

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Darren.

 

[Hasan]

Hi Darren,

Congratulations on your purchase!

I upgraded my sound system in the 993 soon after I bought it because as you say, it is somewhat lacking. The original speakers are made by Nokia who aren't really noted for high end speakers.

First of all, I assume that the car isn't fitted with the optional 'hi-fi' pack?...You can tell as the rear speakers have a raised bump to them as the tweeter is raised to face forward. The front speakers are also much bigger and house a bass and mid bass unit with a seperate tweeter.

First of all, the fronts. You have a number of options here but here are a few recommendations:

- Infinity Reference 5000cs (5.25" mid/bass speaker, passive crossover unit which is fitted inside the door and a 1" tweeter) This has a clarity and kick which is very very good and I have this in my car. You can find this for about £120 on the internet.
- Alternatively, MB Quart make superb high end 5.25 component packages and they are German. Again, check the internet. The MB's work better when run on an amp.

Make sure the mid bass speaker is 5.25" and not larger. This will ensure that the fit is good. Also a good fitter can use the exisiting tweeter housing you have and place the new tweeter within it as to not spoil the look of the interior. This is what my fitter did.
Important - Make sure you use a fitter who has worked on 911's!!!....or even better, 993's. Putting the door panels back on to flush fit is important!

For the rears, make sure they are 4x6 in size. Now, surprisingly few manufacturers make 4x6 speakers and supply grilles (which you obviously need!). So here are my recommendations for the rears:

- The upgraded M490 4x6 rears used in the Hifi pack option. http://www.carnewal-europe.com sell these (Look under 'Electronics') and they are a very reasonable 98 Euros plus P/P
- Blaupunkt do a 4x6 speaker with it's own grilles supplied too, and they have a high end version which I have fitted to my car. ODx 462E is the model number and you can see them at http://www.blaupunkt.co.uk/7606322000_main.asp

Good luck, and send a message if you need more help.

Hasan

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Darren

From personal experience with a C2S, go for a 6" or 6 1/2" co-axial speaker. Without wishing to get too technical, a co-axial has the tweeter mounted in the centre of the driver. This will save an awful lot of messing around getting tweeters into the factory mountings which believe me, is not easy. Now for the technical bit! A co-axial will give a better 'point source' image than going for a direct position replacement. Basically, you will end up with a nicer sound without the treble taking your ears out, which can very easily happen in a 993, due to phase shift, the proximity of the tweeter to the listener's ear and a few other boring spotter bits, (mail me if you really want to know!!!!). As for damage to the car, there isn't any. The factory aperture is large enough to take these sizes without any difficulty and in the majority of cases, you can use the existing screw holes.

I wouldn't bother with rear speakers at all. Simple question - when did you last see a band playing from behind you??? Spent your money on a nice set of front speakers only and let the rear screen take care of the rest for you.

The 4x50 you speak of is actually more like 4x5. For quality, an amplifier is the way to go, but there are a couple of things to know. Positioning can be tricky due to the obvious size limitations in a 993. Secondly, the wiring of routing takes thought. There is a little drilling of the bulkhead required if you choose to mount an amplifier in the front compartment, but done properly, this is of no detriment to the car and cannot easily be spotted. In fact, done properly, it looks as though Porsche themselves did it!

If you want wire routing advice, or advice regarding equipment for that matter, just ask. I'm pleased with the results in mine, but I go for the Rotel / Lynn type of sound, rather than the how much noise can I make / make your ears bleed type of thing!

Hope this helps; (by the way, I installed it all myself, so it's a case of scratched knuckles equals experience!)

 

[Sundeep]

those Nokia speakers... not bad from a cellphone manufacturer.......

personally I ripped out (carefully) all the OEM kit and have replaced it with worthy Infinity Speakers, otherwise depending on the size of your wallet.. anything by JL Audio & Pheonix Gold are worthy of the 993 legend......[]

although the OEM wiring is its achilles heal [] unless one can get it ALL replaced !

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Whilst the 'scraped knuckles' are a pain, replacing, or rather adding to, the factory wiring really isn't that much hassle and really is a must. It is possible to do a very tidy job yourself, without having to resort to high installation prices. The other point is to install in a way that everything can be reversed at a later point, without any detriment to the car. Again, this is quite strraight forward. Anyone needing information - just ask.

 

[Sundeep]

ORIGINAL: oliverjamesthomas

Anyone needing information - just ask.

yes.... email it to me if you want to !

 

[Hasan]

Hi Oliver,

If I went to see a 993 to buy, and I'm told that the owner has disconnected the front tweeters and rear speakers, I frankly wouldn't be very impressed!!
You can't remove the front tweeters either as it will leave a gaping hole behind in the door panel so Darren....go to a good fitter who can put in a component package into the doors and replace the tweeters and put new tweeters into the existing housing. It isn't difficult for a pro fitter to do.

I would definately get replacement rear speakers too.....but listen...it's your choice! []

If you want originality, go for the Carnewal option above.....

Hasan

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Hi Hasan

Couple of points to note:

Firstly, there is no need to remove the rear speakers - just leave them disconnected at the back of the head unit, or even easier, fade forward.

There is no need to leave gaping holes, because you don't need to remove the front tweeters. Again, simply leave them disconnected. Actually, fitting a new tweeter into the existing mount is quite a destructive process. Most installers will take a dremmel,or similar, to the mount, because virtually any quality aftermarket tweeter will be too large to go in. When it comes time to return to standard, it's a trip to an opc to replace the mounts at who knows what cost.

My entire concept is to install in a non destructive manner, so that at any time, equipment can be removed and the car can go back to how it left the factory.

Your point on rear speakers is really down to personal taste. I was merely suggesting that if you have something tasty in the home hifi scenario, the speakers, apart from surround which is very heavily processed and filtered, will always be in front of you. This is the only way to get a tonal balance with good staging and imaging.

Regards,

Oliver.

 

[Guest]

All, many thanks for the info. It's really helpful to get different points of view.

Although I plan to install the speakers myself I'll go and speak with my local audio hi-fi retailer & listen to what they have to offer. I'm not planning to have my music deafeningly loud as a still want to hear that flat 6 behind me, but it's just that the standard kit sounds very 'tinny' without any depth or clarity.

There are 6.5" Infinity Reference 6502i speaker available on the web for £45 and JBL: P-652 co-axials for £75.

I think I'll still replace the rears but maybe with a more 'budget' price (£30ish) especially if it's a straightforward job to swap them.

Once again thanks for all your input.

 

[Hasan]

Hi,

The acoustics of a car isn't really like your front room is it? and I wasn't suggesting the removal of the rear speakers. The guy wants a set of decent speakers and to hear the 993 roar, we aren't talking purist hi-fi sound!!

Anyway, no more suggestions from me Darren....Good luck.

Just remember, whatever rear speakers you buy, make sure they come with their own grills as most budget ones don't, and the standard Porsche grills are too small for some 4x6 speaker basket designs.

Congratulations on the car..... []

 

[Shane Hodges]

Darren, just a few other suggestions for you as I'm just about (at long last) to have a major audio/sat nav/Road Pilot/hands free car kit refit to my 993.

6.5 inch will fit in the front without too much trouble. This should give you a bit more base than the 5.25 inch. Re Tweeters, a number of component speakers have 1 inch tweeters, so you should be OK - make sure the crossovers fit in the same place or else you are mounting them inside car. Get the tweeters pointing forward for better sound ... back to Olivers point. Or go the co-axial option for ease!

If you are running good 6.5 inch components, an amp will definitely improve clarity and quality - position can be entertaining. Mine will be going under the front passenger seat - I don't want to loose any luggage space.

For rears, as everyone says, they are just for fill - all the quality will come from the front. I am getting Boston Acoustics which no one seems to mention so far. Be careful when/if you remove the rear grilles. They will be brittle and likely to snap. Porsche replacements are £17 each.

It's all about what you want for sound - everyone will be different ... and as is mentioned above, the engine sound is all you need sometimes sometimes!

 

[ClubSport 911]

A co-axial will give a better 'point source' image than going for a direct position replacement. Basically, you will end up with a nicer sound

15" Tannoy Gold's...Kef Uni-Q....Klipsch Horn....Martin Logan Aerius ?....Stacked ESL63's with REL ?

What should I choose Oliver ? []

 

[Hasan]

Hope Oliver has a sense of humour []

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Oh,all ye who mock! By the way, I do have a sense of humour!

In response:

Kef actually did a fantastic demonstration car in the guise of a 964 back in the 90's. The entire front stage was Uni-Q based, if anyone should wish to know!

Lowther PM63s in folded horns? Sorry, don't know the Lowther make that well, although I do know a man who does. Maybe I'll have to investigate that one! As for folded horns - well, been there and done that. Also done the elongated compression horn which is actually quite a clever concept. The USD wavequide; (similar to the horn concept), works very well too! I have one of the ten sets imported to this country from the USA. Valve component systems are available from a firm called Butler Audio, specifically designed for an in-car use, so maybe that concept isn't quite as strange as it seems.

The one thing that strikes me though is that two posts have been made, mentioning very high end equipment. So the question is, am I really that daft after all. I spend most of the day in my car - work tends to make things that way, so I spend little time at home. Hence, I like to enjoy a decent sound whilst on the move because to have the non automotive kit would be a waste. Others are the other way around, so the car is a waste to them and the living room is the important one.

In finality, my suggestion was meant to be purely informative and constructive. After all, if you uprate the suspension, you would do the alignment as well, wouldn't you? Otherwise, what's the point? Speakers are just the same - either slap them in and listen, or put a little more design in and get better results for no more money!

Here endeth the lesson....

 

[batemmj]

Help please? I think my 97 C4S has the factory hi fi option (the big double speaker boxes in the door under the tweeter). I have had a look on this forum and Rennlist but can't find any consistent suggestions regarding upgrading. Maintaining original look is a priority.

Before the floodgates open, yes sound of the six cylinders is the best soundtrack, but a trip up the motorway has me reaching for some tunes. I don't want to spend a fortune but would like to try and improve the current poor sound quality.

Suggestions of kit/suppliers very welcome. Enjoy the warm tarmac at the weekend.[]

 

[Guest]

Well I eventually bit the bullet on Saturday & put new front & rear speakers in the Targa. I stripped out the front speakers & took the car to a local reputable car audio specialist & took some of their advice. I ended up with PPI (American) co-axials in the front with a pivotable tweeter & some Alpine 6x4's in the rear.
The guy at the shop was really helpful & by having the car there I ensured that the front speakers would fit okay.
The results is a massive improvement on the OEM stuff without having to resort to amplifiers et al.
I never have my music blaring so these suit me fine.[]

I'm surprised that the factory hi-fi option offers poor sound quality though - has it always been like this ? Maybe something's amiss - one of the door speakers that I remove had a loose wire.