Starter Motor

[plhorner]

I reckon this has been covered somewhere before, but anyway......
Jumped in the car the other day to go out, turned the key and just got a click and slight buzz form the starter (done it twice now in as many weeks). I suspect the earthing strap, probably a daft question but does anybody have any idea where abouts I'll find it. I'm just being lazy as I don't have a great deal of spare time to spend under the car !!!

Thanks,

 

[Guest]

Phil,
the earth strap is up the front of the gearbox.
Clean the terminals onto the starter as well.
If doesn't work - a trick is to take the load of the key switch by putting a 30 amp relay between the key and the wire to the starter solinoid.
Often, the contacts (varoius) between key and solinoid are enough to loose 2 or 3 volts. The relay gives it a full 12 or 14 volts! ( a kick in the duds) []

 

[tripe]

Alan,

It's a fiddly job. The motor is located under the car on the driver's side (UK cars). Get under the car and look up above the drive shaft and heater duct - the motor fits to the gearbox bell housing.

Remove the electrical connectors from the starter motor solenoid noting where they fit (for refitting later). The bottom nut fixing the starter motor to the bell housing is easy to see and readily removed, the one at the top is a different matter. It is out of sight at the top of the motor and access is very tight. It is hex headed (i.e. you need an allen key type socket insert - I can't remember the size, hopefully someone else will post it). You will probably need a socket bar extension to reach it and it may well be tight. Working blind remove the nut. The motor should then drop down.

As the Haynes manual says, refitting is the reverse of removal (!!)......one tip though, 'fix' the top nut and washer to the hex extension using a dab of grease as it is nigh on impossible to get them to thread them on to the exposed bolt otherwise.

Have fun.

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

Thanks for the info.....I will check the earth straps and connections first, as when trying to start the engine, I simply get a buzz (not a click)...I'm guessing the solenoid's gone, but now knowing what a tricky job replacement is...I'll avoid it if I can!

 

[bones]

Alan you missed out we could have fixed that in the 'Technical Arena' at the weekend! Re-fitting a starter motor is not impossible, just fiddly, if you have the car on axle stands be careful you have to apply a fair bit of torque to those rusty old nuts under there.

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

Hi Bones....Yes we were laughing about that on Sunday....Unfortunately, the car refused to start in my garage ...so we didnt get as far as BH for a fix!!

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

ORIGINAL: bones

Alan you missed out we could have fixed that in the 'Technical Arena' at the weekend! Re-fitting a starter motor is not impossible, just fiddly, if you have the car on axle stands be careful you have to apply a fair bit of torque to those rusty old nuts under there.

Talking about torque, do you know the settings for those bolts please....another bit of missing info in the never to be forgotten Haynes manual!

 

[3.2_fordy]

Alan
The torque settings are 45 Nm or 33 ft ib and its a 10mm allen key you will need, it looks a sod to get at so good look[][]

You should invest in a Bentleys Service Manual

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

ORIGINAL: 3.2 fordy

Alan
The torque settings are 45 Nm or 33 ft ib and its a 10mm allen key you will need, it looks a sod to get at so good look[][]

You should invest in a Bentleys Service Manual

Haynes rely on my business[]

and your right it is a sod to get to, the allen key is only good for the lower bolt...I havent cracked the top one yet, my hex socket is too 'bulky' to get a good tight fit...am looking at other options right now![]

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

Update...got the old one off at last, put on a new (reconned) Borsche one, only to find same problem!...after various checks and recharging the battery, it worked!

Sat 10th sept.
So although I replaced the starter unnecessarily, it had done 120,000 miles...so I didnt feel too bad about fitting another....but still uncertain that I had cured the problem...

Tues 13th....started up in the garage, stalled whilst shuffling the car out (tight access to/from garage)...then car wouldnt start!..b****r!

With the car now stuck outside my back door, blocking the access, I called the AA with every intention of them taking the car to my specialist....The AA bloke though didnt want any of that and did some checks himself....after an hour or so
he had decided the new starter was ok, the battery was fully charged, the immobiliser was functioning ok, as was the ignition. Then he found that under load the voltage was dropping heavily on the battery lead at the starter motor connection...so checked the battery again...then the lead...Voila it was the terminal connector to the positive side of the battery. Checking the connector when on the battery post of course showed good, but touching the wire between the connector and the sleeving showed the voltage drop...therefore answer is to cut off old battery connecter, fit new then job done....at present simply by wiggling the pos/battery wire then turning the key...car starts.

Sorry for such a long winded post but thought it might help others before laying out
£180 odd for a new starter motor![]

 

[Car52]

I’m no expert but mine was doing same a week ago, thought it was starter motor and did the rocking in gear thing to no avail ... turned out to be battery after all, put new battery on and instantly sorted ... ??

 

[chas3.2]

Hi Darren
Not an easy job as you need to jack the car up put on axle stands
lower the gearbox, too remove the two holding allan key nuts.
one of them is very awkward.
Tow start the car with your best mate. get car on a lift still not an easy job.

Charles.

 

[medazzling]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Pretty sure the battery is OK, been on conditioner over the winter, so I guess its going to be the tow job as its a tricky job with the starter. Cheers

 

[geedee]

Just web wandering and wondered if you resolved your starter issue..? Along with battery issues earth leads can often be an issue, the one at the battery or the one running from the strap providing earth from the chassis to the engine gearbox assembly. it can be due to the lead it`s self rotting internally which can be as the result of it`s location under the car for the engine gearbox earth strap. Check the battery terminals for any corrosion or signs of heat indicating they ay not be clean and tight, it can be good practice to remove the bolts securing the earths to the bodywork and cleaning the faces where they make contact.

With poor connections anywhere in the circuit it can lead to a drop in voltage at the starter which may supply only enough to operate the solenoid and no more.
Happy to chat further if you think I might be of assistance.

Never owned a 3.2 but repaired the starter of my SC in the Auchranie hotel car park a few years back at a PCGB event on the Island of Arran.. (-:

 

[pebattrick]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.
The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

 

[les richards]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.
The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

Probably a wee bit late now - only just seen your post - but I've been going through the same pain with my 993. A click from the rear of the car and little else apart from the occasional time when it fired and ran. My starter is still under warranty as was the battery; I got a replacement battery (having tried a borrowed starter pack with instant success) from ECP but it made no difference.

Spoke by chance to a one-man garage set-up near me. Old school chap who said it sounded like an earth problem, something, he said, affected VW and Porsche a lot in his experience (he also runs a Boxster). I cleaned the earth point near the battery along with the strap tags and later tried it and it started. The car was due a service and MOT at which point changing the starter was an option. Thought I might have to trailer it but it started and got me there...

Having carried some simple checks of the system, it seems the car never once clicked while with the mechanic and he reckoned he must have started it a dozen times or so during the day and taking it for the MOT.

So, still not quite sure what the cause was or whether the cleaning of the earth connections cured it but, touch wood, all is well. A good earth is vital on all vehicles so worth keeping a check on it as it's easy to overlook the simple things.

Oh, and I've still a year to run on the starter warranty and as yet ECP haven't collected the 'old but probably sound battery'...

 

[geedee]

The earth strap and the cleanliness of both ends of it`s termination are critical to the operation of the starter, it can be well worth while to unbolt them and clean up not only the strap but that which it bolts on to, be that the engine/gearbox or chassis. In a bid to avoid corrosion on the metal you may have bared, a smear of grease over the area once bolted back up can help.

It seems on water cooled Porsches, that there have been issues over time with the heavy leads failing in service that supply the "live" juice to the starter, so perhaps worth being aware of that too if you come across the issue on a later "911."

Types he who once replaced a starter motor to find the negative battery terminal hiding crud between it and the tight clamp.. Duh..!

 

[medazzling]

Hi
Sorry i am embarrassed that i did not reply to close the thread

Tow bumped the car to get it running and over to the garage (Porsche Torque) and it turned out to be the starter motor . . . the guys were very good at PT and after giving me options I decided to have the unit rebuilt by a specialist and I had the car back starting perfect in a few days; fair price charged to include service work due at same time.

Thanks again for the help and guidance as always
Darren

 

[pebattrick]

Definitely have the battery checked. The whole unit needs a min of 7.8 volts to work. At low voltages the relay may click but still not have enough oomph to engage the starter motor. I've been struggling with multiple problems with mine since last autumn. Spent a long time struggling with the starter motor (bonus: I can now get the motor off and on in an hour or so.) The battery proved to have a dud cell. Still not over the hump as starting is still intermittent. About to change the ignition switch.

 

[les richards]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.
The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

Probably a wee bit late now - only just seen your post - but I've been going through the same pain with my 993. A click from the rear of the car and little else apart from the occasional time when it fired and ran. My starter is still under warranty as was the battery; I got a replacement battery (having tried a borrowed starter pack with instant success) from ECP but it made no difference.

Spoke by chance to a one-man garage set-up near me. Old school chap who said it sounded like an earth problem, something, he said, affected VW and Porsche a lot in his experience (he also runs a Boxster). I cleaned the earth point near the battery along with the strap tags and later tried it and it started. The car was due a service and MOT at which point changing the starter was an option. Thought I might have to trailer it but it started and got me there...

Having carried some simple checks of the system, it seems the car never once clicked while with the mechanic and he reckoned he must have started it a dozen times or so during the day and taking it for the MOT.

So, still not quite sure what the cause was or whether the cleaning of the earth connections cured it but, touch wood, all is well. A good earth is vital on all vehicles so worth keeping a check on it as it's easy to overlook the simple things.

Oh, and I've still a year to run on the starter warranty and as yet ECP haven't collected the 'old but probably sound battery'...

...can report that since I cleaned the earth to battery cable connections I (and the Indie) have experienced no further issues with starting - the last time when left for four weeks. Has started on the button each time. That's probably put the curse on it.