Supercharged 964 - What would you pay?

[Guest]

I am potentially interested in buying a 1991 Ninemeister-supercharged 964. It has done 87k, has 330bhp, uprated 965 brakes, lowered suspension and a full and detailed service history. Apparently the engine was rebuilt and supercharged at 77k miles 3 years ago. It appears to be in first class condition but as it's £20k, which is top whack for a great low mileage 964, my feeling is that it over-priced. Any thoughts please?

 

[pae]

I guess one of the comparators would be the price of a turbo version of the same vintage? I think those are around the same price point so on that basis (if I'm correct about that) it's in the right area. After that it's more subjective.

To a large extent it depends on the value you put on the rarity of the supercharger and if you're particularly turned on by supercharging as against turbocharging. Some people will pay more for the relative uniqueness of the supercharger and uprated brakes, otherwise will be put off by them because it's all a bit 'special' and servicing, parts etc could always be a pain to source. Only you can call that one.

Followed by the usual caveats about history, condition etc. etc.

Phil

 

[kevin]

If its a 9M supercharger then the compression ratio will be unchanged, there will be no intercooler.

I have seen TPC (the supercharger 9M uses IIRC) conversions, and the early ones look agricultural compared to OEM fitment, but they appear reliable enough on the 993 conversions I've seen.

kevin

 

[chrism964]

I would say disregard the supercharger conversion as a factor in the price. If the rest of the car warrants top whack. i.e. it has had all the right things done in the last few years and wants for nothing then twenty grand for an excellent 964 is just about justifiable. However if it needs work to the suspension/brakes/engine or the interior is tired then obviously it isn't worth it. There are cars around from dealers for eighteen and nineteen grand that would still need some money invested in them after purchase. If this car wants for nothing after you've bought it I think it's worth it.
The supercharger conversion costs around five or so grand to have supplied + fitting but IMO should not add too much extra value to the car(say one or two grand at most).

HTH

 

[Guest]

Thanks all.

The concensus is pretty much as I thought - the supercharger is both a positive and a negative - and therefore doesn't really add any value. Maurice - as Kevin says the competion ratio is unchanged from standard (according to Ninemeister's web site) and this one isn't chargecooled. Re. knock sensor, I'm not too sure.

I have subsequently found out that it was featured in 911 & Porsche World in 2003 where it was confirmed that the supercharger work, including RS clutch and flywheel cost over £8k. However the then current owner said he tracked it -the fact that it's only covered 10k miles since the conversion exactly 3 years ago may reflect this. Do you think that is an issue?

Re. condition, although I've yet to see it, according to the owner (who seems very genuine) over the last 10 years around £25k has been spent on it so it appears to have been looked after. It was last serviced in January this year at JZ Machtech - so I'll give them a ring.

Overall, I still feel that even if it is immaculate, £20k is too much for an early 964 C4, especially in the current market. I'm thinking of a maximum offer of £18k assuming it is immaculate, less if it is not - any thoughts?

 

[mwadams]

This one just went for almost £23K so who knows

http://www.shirleys-garage.co.uk/Car_Photos/P1200001b.JPG

 

[Jeff Forsyth]

I'd agree with most of the points given by other members, in particular that 20-21K is top wack for a 'nothing wanting' 964. Therefore if the vehicle is not devalued by the supercharger, but more importantly done by Ninemeister who's reputation is second to none, then in comparison to the shirleys vehicle-and the money spent on it-it seems reasonable value. However, make sure you do not buy without a pre-purchase inspection(s). If required I can send you a pre-purchase guide-----email:jjpsf@hotmail.com--was this for sale in 911 Porsche World ???

Sincerely

Jeff

 

[Guest]

I saw that feature and after reading it I knew I wanted a 964 bad!

Its a lovely colour, like a silver blue/purple.

Is it the one on Autotrader? Must be, looks like it and same cost.

WHen you seeing it?

 

[Guest]

Thanks all. I've since talked to a Porsche specialist I've known for years and he reckons that Ninemeister's supercharger conversions have an inherent problem - to which Maurice alluded - running the standard compression ratio. He says that this is far too high for forced induction (just look at the difference between the 964 & 965). He has rebuilt several of these engines after they blew themselves to bits...

MW Adams - I think Shirley's had that car in for a very long time - so proving they are difficult to sell.

Jeff - you are quite right, I would never buy any Porsche without a PPI and thanks for the offer of the guide, I may take you up on this. The car is for sale in Autotrader.

Johno -Yes it's that car, but bearing in mind everything I've heard, I'm going to give it a miss I'm afraid and join the long list of people looking for a good 930.

Thanks to all of you again.

 

[SimonExtreme]

ORIGINAL: timr
Thanks all. I've since talked to a Porsche specialist I've known for years and he reckons that Ninemeister's supercharger conversions have an inherent problem - to which Maurice alluded - running the standard compression ratio. He says that this is far too high for forced induction (just look at the difference between the 964 & 965). He has rebuilt several of these engines after they blew themselves to bits...

With all due respect to your Porsche specialist, he clearly doesn't understand how the TPC supercharger works in this situation. There is absolutely no need to adjust the compression ration.This isn't about forced induction but about cylinder filling efficency. There are lots of myths talked about this conversion, mainly by people who don't understand what Colin has done. It also doesn't help that some copy it and then blow up the engine through total ignorance..

I would have no concerns about the conversion. As for comapring it with a Turbo, again this is the wrong thing to look at. A torbo boosted car drives very differently from a supercharged car. The superchargerr gives a wider spread of power, while probaly not as much at the top end. There isn't the lag with a supercharger and the torque curve is far flatter.

In this particular case, supercahrging a 964 is an interesting option for gaining more power. Its easy to do and best of all, its easy to remove and return the car to standard. So to me, the question is would you buy the car for that money if it didn't have the supercharger? If so, buy the car and if you have concerns, take it of an sell it. I believe the last kit that was sold s/h got good money. After all, its £5k new.

 

[Jeff Forsyth]

Yes, Simon has raised some good points. More importantly the requirements of each system in terms of output and requirements If you are unsure, ring Colin Belton and hear it from the horses mouth. He's an amiable knowledgeable character who will instill confidence in you. He's no fitter as is often the case but a true development engineer.

Sincerely

Jeff