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Suspension Check

lowndes

PCGB Member
Member
As you drive away from the OPC with lightened wallet and just 6 miles showing on the odometer it is tempting to think engineering excellence and meticulous quality control means your new motor is as good as it could be. Everything is just spot on. Mmm I wonder?

After the excellent work Chris did on my 996GT3 I always had in mind taking the turbo for a health check at Center Gravity once the car had a few miles under its belt and the suspension had had a chance to settle in. So by the time I was home after LWOTY+ that time had come and last Thursday saw me arriving in Atherstone for a quick afternoon appointment.

This was the first 991 turbo Chris had had through the workshop so he was pleased to use my car as a reference point and calibration. In fact the car is so relatively new that it is not yet on the software for his new Hunter alignment equipment . Of course Chris had already checked out the turbo settings and so there was no problem save to the extent that some readings showed red when they were actually green, and vice versa, if you see what I mean.

But first the test drive. I thought the car had seemed absolutely fine and certainly hadn't given too much trouble on LWOTY. Not so apparently. Before we had gone 200 metres towards the roundabout test Chris had detected imbalances which he later confirmed on the dual carriageway and under load.

Back in the workshop the wobble board test was fine. However on lifting the cover in the front compartment it was evident someone had been there before. The LHS strut had white paint marks on the nuts but there were none on the RHS. Interesting!

The new Hunter equipment has some nifty gadgets which meant there was no need to wrestle with the centre locks to attach the hub devices of the old equipment.

991turboSatCGMay20147_zpsfabb44ce.jpg


Space age laser guided 3D beams of light and complex geometrical calculations feed the answer straight onto the screen.

And here is the before picture. Be aware that just because it is red doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong as the computer baseline is 991 C4 but the relative numbers tell a story and what they show is not pretty.

991turboSatCGMay20146_zpsd24a2940.jpg


We agreed we would weight the car to DIN with compensation for fuel. There is no ride height adjustment on turbo but a check showed the readings were spot on. So from that point it was a question of adjusting camber, caster and toe, front and rear to bring the figures back into line. Simples [;)]

One of the consequences of PDCC and Rear Wheel Steer is that the suspension area is quite congested. The adjuster bolts are conventionally located but very hard to get at because the free space is no longer free but instead taken up with stepper motors and hydraulic rams. After an hour or so of trying various tools Chris decided that he couldn't make the adjustments he wanted due to limited range of movement of spanners etc. To me that would have been the end of it. Not for Chris though

991turboSatCGMay20141_zpsb0a1c196.jpg


The rear brakes as well as being large have some complex cooling ducting which wasn't' helping access. This had to go. And so it did. Now access was much more straightforward and the iterative process of the way one adjustment affects all the others entered its Newton's Backwards Differences phase until at around 7.00pm all was green and good to go.

991turboSatCGMay20143_zps2dd88e82.jpg


Not quite. The "After" test drive was still needed. So off we went and low and behold the car now tracked as it should followed cambers and cross falls correctly. Satisfied Chris asked me to take over and we set off on the extended test route.

If I am honest I would say the car felt just the same as it did before. And here's the point, it is only when someone who knows exactly what they are doing conducts specific tests against known variables that problems which are latent come to light and can be rectified.

My recommendation to any owner of a new 991 would be to invest in half a day at Center Gravity. Not only is it money well spent it is also highly instructive and a most enjoyable way to spend an afternoon.

For those who are familiar with the set up here are some highly dubious and deeply subjective results for the 991 turbo S.

Wet Roundabout. 27mph. Chris who was driving says 22mph max for 997.
Sinuous S bends at decent speed. Chris " This car corners so flat with just no roll"
B road bend normal max 60mph. There was gravel on the surface but you will have to PM me for result [;)]
Tight B road 20mph max. 30mph comfortably.
 
Excellent report, Nick.
The first time I visited Chris was the day before Gary's Yorkshire Moors tour. On the initial test drive, there seemed little difference in the way the car handled. However, it became increasingly apparent as the tour progressed, handling had improved beyond recognition with resultant increases confidence through every bend. [:)]
Unless you encounter an unfriendly pothole or a hard landing ([:(]), your setup should be good for the next 20K miles or so.

Regards,

Clive.
 

ORIGINAL: lowndes

As you drive away from the OPC with lightened wallet and just 6 miles showing on the odometer it is tempting to think engineering excellence and meticulous quality control means your new motor is as good as it could be. Everything is just spot on. Mmm I wonder?

Having been through a similar experience I now get the OPC to provide me with the geo settings as they will have tested my new car, a print-out showing full car spec inc. options and PDI check(ed) list. If used, a copy of the engine report which will show any over-revs.

Customers should not have to remedy issues on new or resold vehicles.
 

Thanks for posting that Nick.

Although I've visited them previously with the Club, I too was at CG a week last Friday and had a very similar experience to yourself. My Cayman has always tracked a little to the left since purchase and the front end had a tendency to wash out on tight roundabouts; plus the original rear (P-Zero) tyres wore rather rapidly and unevenly in 9,000 miles, the N/S rear in particular. The current set were heading the same way, so rather belatedly I decided that it was time to get something done about it.

Although I wasn't aware of it, Pete pointed out that the front camber had been adjusted at some time (during the PDI?) but the suspension settings were way out, with toe and cambers all over the place, the N/S rear toe being the worst offender. Certainly there were significantly more reds than greens on display which Pete corrected to give a balanced "fast road" set-up. I've just done a track day at Blyton Park with R4 where the Cayman felt very nicely balanced, and I'm also hopeful that the uneven rear tyre wear will have been cured.

That new Hunter alignment rig really is an impressive piece of kit, and in Chris and Pete it was a pleasure meet a team of knowledeable and dedicated professionals at the top of their game. A definite recommendation from me.

Jeff
 

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic


ORIGINAL: lowndes

As you drive away from the OPC with lightened wallet and just 6 miles showing on the odometer it is tempting to think engineering excellence and meticulous quality control means your new motor is as good as it could be. Everything is just spot on. Mmm I wonder?

Having been through a similar experience I now get the OPC to provide me with the geo settings as they will have tested my new car, a print-out showing full car spec inc. options and PDI check(ed) list. If used, a copy of the engine report which will show any over-revs.

Customers should not have to remedy issues on new or resold vehicles.

That's interesting, I didn't realise PDI information was available. It would certainly provide a useful base reference for future issues.

As for my recent experience as described in the earlier post, what I would like to know is who thought it necessary to alter the front suspension after it left the factory? QC Germany? PDI UK? Some guy on a YTS scheme? Whoever it was did a pretty poor job to judge by the "Before" readings we found when the car was at CG.
It is also an open question who is likely to do a better job. That is to say it took Chris with all his experience 6 hours to complete the work to his satisfaction. I can't see a Porsche OPC technician applying the same painstaking iterative process to achieving a similar result. I maybe misguided but on balance would rather pay CG in the certain knowledge that it will be done properly (and at a very fair price) [:)] than have it done for free by OPC. [:(]. Whether my actions have invalidated my warranty I guess we will have to leave for another day. [;)]
 

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

Excellent report, Nick.
The first time I visited Chris was the day before Gary's Yorkshire Moors tour. On the initial test drive, there seemed little difference in the way the car handled. However, it became increasingly apparent as the tour progressed, handling had improved beyond recognition with resultant increases confidence through every bend. [:)]
Unless you encounter an unfriendly pothole or a hard landing ([:(]), your setup should be good for the next 20K miles or so.

Regards,

Clive.

Thanks Clive.

I think there are two aspects to this. Firstly with the huge complexity of Rear Wheel Steer, PDCC, VTS, PAA,PSM,ABD,,ASR, all feeding information into an algorithm written by some guy with pebble glasses and a bad haircut in Stuttgart, it is difficult to know precisely which forces are acting on the car to turn it into the bend. To that extent I guess some of these systems may mask or compensate for out of tolerance geometry.

On the other hand, the fact I know it is now set up properly gives me more confidence, exactly as you say. Chris also said to me that subject to no nasty pothole incidents it should be good for 20k. Interesting business model that where you do such a good job there is no need for customers to return but they in turn spread the good word on fora such as this [;)].

Anyway for me the 968CS is next though I think I will have to do a few more track days before I know what I actually want from the car.

Cheers

Nick
 
Jeff

Seems like the first thing to do on picking up a new car is open the luggage compartment and inspect the strut nuts for paint and if found make an early phone call to Atherstone.

Joking apart, it raises a serious question about why OPC (if indeed it is they) are not setting the cars up properly as an when they decide to make these post factory adjustments. It would be interesting to run a survey of how common this attempted geometry adjustment is on new cars.

Cheers

Nick
 

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic

Having been through a similar experience I now get the OPC to provide me with the geo settings as they will have tested my new car, a print-out showing full car spec inc. options and PDI check(ed) list. If used, a copy of the engine report which will show any over-revs.

Customers should not have to remedy issues on new or resold vehicles.

Didn't think PC's checked geo. in the PDI. Have always been told, "It's due to changes during transportation, Sir" when I've complained about out-of-range chassis setup on my new cars.
If they can't endure a bit of loading and unloading, there's not much hope for them during general use. I suspect cars are being constructed using standard setting marks at the factory nowadays rather than individually set up on a test rig as they used to be.
[8|]
Regards,
Clive.
 

ORIGINAL: lowndes

Firstly with the huge complexity of Rear Wheel Steer, PDCC, VTS, PAA,PSM,ABD,,ASR, all feeding information into an algorithm written by some guy with pebble glasses and a bad haircut in Stuttgart

Was this the guy?

computer-geek.jpg


 

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

...I suspect cars are being constructed using standard setting marks at the factory nowadays rather than individually set up on a test rig as they used to be.

Regards,
Clive.

I think you're right Clive. I seem to recall Pete telling me that something like one in ten cars have the geometry checked at the end of the line; and that's probably on a good day..!

Jeff
 

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