Suspension etc

[RichardLW]

I did the PCBG track day at Brands last week and I was surprised by the huge understeer the car exhibited, to the point where I am thinking of cancelling the next one in a few weeks time. The car is a 993C4S and is pretty much standard. The rear dampers were replaced (Monroe) earlier this year and the A-arms are newish too but I imagine the rest is original. Tyres are Rossos 225/40/18 and 285/30/18 and were (!) nearly new.

Question is, where do I go from here? I am going to talk to Parrs about the suspension settings but what would you recommend in terms of springs and dampers? Also, would a narrower - 265/35 - rear even out the grip a bit?

I want to sort this out as it was a bit disheartening really. I'm not the quickest driver by any stretch but I was able to go quicker round the bendy bits in my 964 and certainly I did less tyre damage in that car.

All thoughts gratefully received.

 

[968er]

Richarrd,

The best upgrade is the Bilstein HD's and H&R springs. They transform the way the car handles, IMO the munroes are useless and you need to get them off ASAP.

Also, have a proper alignment done on the car and discuss what you are looking for, if you are running a neutral setup that will tend towards understeer.

 

[38F3E1]

Yes 265s on the rear will help but money would be better spent on altering the suspension. C4s do naturally understeer much worse than C2s on the 993. Roll bar changes can help as can springs, damper and geometry changes. It's definately worth talking to a company with expertise in this area.

Might also be worth spending time with an instructor who knows C4s as they may be able to change your driving technique to suit the car better.

Ian.

 

[RichardLW]

Agree on the instructor front - tried two on the same day and got totally different instruction. One manic - late braking and late turn in -v- one laid back - early relaxed braking with a very considered turn in. The first was worth 10mph in straightline speed at points but I can't help thinking that the latter was probably more useful.

What struck me the most though was the car, when I could feel it sorting out big sideways moments. Whilst this was very helpful, not being there in the first place would have been better..............like I said, I'm not the greatest driver but I do know how its supposed to work.

 

[Sundeep]

4wd = understeer....

a larger rear anti-roll bar would dial some out

but there are driving techniques to get a bit more turn in [:-]

 

[Pickled Piper]

Richard,

I am surprised about your description of excessive understeer. I have a C4 (not an S) and I found no such issues on track with ten year old factory suspension. Are you sure that there is no uderlying problem with your vehicle?

Taj

 

[RichardLW]

I'm pretty sure the car is all OK as it came from a very good source and has a very extensive OPC history. Bear in mind that for the previous 5 years I had a 964 C4 turbo bodied car which was lowered and had a lot of work done at the front to make it work better so I do have some knowledge of understeer in a C4. No, what surprised me was the amount of lock I had to apply to get around some of the tighter bends; obviously, my technique needs to change but there is more to it than that.

 

[Pickled Piper]

ORIGINAL: Sundeep

4wd = understeer....

Sundeep,

You really know how to hurt a man !

Here's a quote from an Autocar road test on the C4 back in the day when 993s were the current 911;

"Understeer, which comes in even later than it does in the Carrera, is moderate to the point of being non existent, unless you attack something like an off camber roundabout."

Taj

ps if anybody wants a copy of the full article drop me a line. It was kindly sent to me a poster on PistonHeads

 

[clubsport]

Pss9 or such will certainly make a difference, but to be fair a C4S as nice as it is on the road is a heavy car on track......there have to be compromises and lightness certainly helps when you want to change direction. ( I was in the yellow 993 at brands accelerating through the turns [] !)

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

So you're looking at new tyres, replacement suspension and uprated anti roll bars[8|]. Hope your bank manager's on Vallium!

My advice would be to get the alignment checked by someone that knows what they are doing, because something sounds slightly wrong in that department. Then get some decent instruction, (please don't think I'm inferring you're no good behind the wheel!). That'll cost you far less than all the upgrades and you can transfer the latter from car to car, which is a bit of a bonus.

Regards

 

[Sundeep]

ORIGINAL: Pickled Piper

ORIGINAL: Sundeep

4wd = understeer....

Sundeep,

You really know how to hurt a man !

Here's a quote from an Autocar road test on the C4 back in the day when 993s were the current 911;

"Understeer, which comes in even later than it does in the Carrera, is moderate to the point of being non existent, unless you attack something like an off camber roundabout."

Taj

ps if anybody wants a copy of the full article drop me a line. It was kindly sent to me a poster on PistonHeads

understeer, another issue Isaac Newton is responsible for.... [:-]

 

[RichardLW]

I actually feel that I might just sell the car as it a bit of a barge.

 

[clubsport]

Huh, looked like a good one to me! What will you replace it with??

 

[kennyboy]

ps if anybody wants a copy of the full article drop me a line. It was kindly sent to me a poster on PistonHeads

yes please Taj!

I actually feel that I might just sell the car as it a bit of a barge.

Richard don't do it!
I have a 993 C4S and I prefer it to a standard 993 C2 and a 993 C4 I've had in the past.
Yes it needs some updating from standard but it's such a great 993 to work from and it's a fantastic all-rounder.

Sort the suspension out, maybe lose some weight on it and add LWF - you should find it completely transforms the car.

A C4S is never going to be the best track-day car but as a compromise for road and track it's great. What about when you're not on the track and also when it's wet - the car has more width to it's abilitys than most.

Fingers crossed you decide to stick at it. []

 

[968er]

Richard,

If you are still running Monroes you are not giving the car a chance. Get rid of them then make up your mind.