Suspension geo results

[appletonn]

My car was in Unit 11 today for a full suspension set up to try and reduce the pronounced understeer that was getting on my nerves.

All I can say is wow! Danny and Jonny at Unit 11 are the boys! Thanks!

It is no exaggeration to say that the car has been transformed. Despite having an invoice from the PO from last September for several hundred pounds for a full geo session, none of the camber, toe or castor measurements matched side to side and were some way short of a good standard set up, never mind an enhanced one!

They also set up the corner weights on the car and fractionally dropped the front ride height to slightly increase the rake of the car from back to front

I will post the final settings tomorrow, but suffice to say that with the 2 degrees of negative camber it is now running at the front, it now turns in superbly and holds its line as you apply some power. The steering is now full of feedback and yet somehow lighter too.

During the 20 mile drive home (took the long way round!), it is fair to say that I have finally fallen in love with my car, whereas before I was a little disappointed by the handling and was even beginning to put it down to me comparing it to the modern rwd 'sports saloon' that I drive day to day.[8|]

Not any more, it grips, points and goes as I wanted it to - just in time for my Le Mans trip too![]

Oh, and I also now have working, yes working, air conditioning[][], following the fitting of the new condensor and today's regassing session.

Chuffed am I?![]

Being a sad individual, I've included some pics of my newly acquired negative front camber....[]

 

[appletonn]

 

[appletonn]

 

[sawood12]

Sounds great Nick. You'll have to let us know how your inside tyre wear gets on with that negative camber. Upon your recommendation I rang Unit 11 the other day enquiring about a new condensor and they offered me the best price I've had so far so I think i'll be placing an order with them soon. I find the climate control system on these cars works amazingly well - as well as a modern system. Just a shame the sun has taken his hat off just as you've got it working[]

 

[appletonn]

Don't forget to order some new washer/seals for the connection from the pipes to the new condensor, like I did....[8|][]

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: appletonn

My car was in Unit 11 today for a full suspension set up to try and reduce the pronounced understeer that was getting on my nerves.

All I can say is wow! Danny and Jonny at Unit 11 are the boys! Thanks!

It is no exaggeration to say that the car has been transformed. Despite having an invoice from the PO from last September for several hundred pounds for a full geo session, none of the camber, toe or castor measurements matched side to side and were some way short of a good standard set up, never mind an enhanced one!

They also set up the corner weights on the car and fractionally dropped the front ride height to slightly increase the rake of the car from back to front

I will post the final settings tomorrow, but suffice to say that with the 2 degrees of negative camber it is now running at the front, it now turns in superbly and holds its line as you apply some power. The steering is now full of feedback and yet somehow lighter too.

During the 20 mile drive home (took the long way round!), it is fair to say that I have finally fallen in love with my car, whereas before I was a little disappointed by the handling and was even beginning to put it down to me comparing it to the modern rwd 'sports saloon' that I drive day to day.[8|]

Not any more, it grips, points and goes as I wanted it to - just in time for my Le Mans trip too![]

Oh, and I also now have working, yes working, air conditioning[][], following the fitting of the new condensor and today's regassing session.

Chuffed am I?![]

Being a sad individual, I've included some pics of my newly acquired negative front camber....[]

Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: Lemon

ORIGINAL: appletonn

My car was in Unit 11 today for a full suspension set up to try and reduce the pronounced understeer that was getting on my nerves.

All I can say is wow! Danny and Jonny at Unit 11 are the boys! Thanks!

It is no exaggeration to say that the car has been transformed. Despite having an invoice from the PO from last September for several hundred pounds for a full geo session, none of the camber, toe or castor measurements matched side to side and were some way short of a good standard set up, never mind an enhanced one!

They also set up the corner weights on the car and fractionally dropped the front ride height to slightly increase the rake of the car from back to front

I will post the final settings tomorrow, but suffice to say that with the 2 degrees of negative camber it is now running at the front, it now turns in superbly and holds its line as you apply some power. The steering is now full of feedback and yet somehow lighter too.

During the 20 mile drive home (took the long way round!), it is fair to say that I have finally fallen in love with my car, whereas before I was a little disappointed by the handling and was even beginning to put it down to me comparing it to the modern rwd 'sports saloon' that I drive day to day.[8|]

Not any more, it grips, points and goes as I wanted it to - just in time for my Le Mans trip too![]

Oh, and I also now have working, yes working, air conditioning[][], following the fitting of the new condensor and today's regassing session.

Chuffed am I?![]

Being a sad individual, I've included some pics of my newly acquired negative front camber....[]

Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

Lee, mine is fitted with the Bilstein Cup suspension and has been reindexed at the rear as well as having some additional rear helper springs. It is stiff, but is settling down a bit, now that I have put around 1000 miles on what were brand new springs and dampers.

They charged me £175 plus VAT, which included corner weighting. Danny, who did it, used to set up a 944 turbo race car a few years back, so he knows the cars too.

Unit 11 get a guy in to do the a/c regassing and he did a 964 today too - mine had been converted to 134a already, but that was the point at which the leaky condensor became evident, hence I didn't get it gassed again until I had fitted the new condensor. Approx £70 plus vat for regassing, I think.

No affiliation at all, but great bunch of guys to deal with.

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: appletonn

ORIGINAL: Lemon

ORIGINAL: appletonn

My car was in Unit 11 today for a full suspension set up to try and reduce the pronounced understeer that was getting on my nerves.

All I can say is wow! Danny and Jonny at Unit 11 are the boys! Thanks!

It is no exaggeration to say that the car has been transformed. Despite having an invoice from the PO from last September for several hundred pounds for a full geo session, none of the camber, toe or castor measurements matched side to side and were some way short of a good standard set up, never mind an enhanced one!

They also set up the corner weights on the car and fractionally dropped the front ride height to slightly increase the rake of the car from back to front

I will post the final settings tomorrow, but suffice to say that with the 2 degrees of negative camber it is now running at the front, it now turns in superbly and holds its line as you apply some power. The steering is now full of feedback and yet somehow lighter too.

During the 20 mile drive home (took the long way round!), it is fair to say that I have finally fallen in love with my car, whereas before I was a little disappointed by the handling and was even beginning to put it down to me comparing it to the modern rwd 'sports saloon' that I drive day to day.[8|]

Not any more, it grips, points and goes as I wanted it to - just in time for my Le Mans trip too![]

Oh, and I also now have working, yes working, air conditioning[][], following the fitting of the new condensor and today's regassing session.

Chuffed am I?![]

Being a sad individual, I've included some pics of my newly acquired negative front camber....[]

Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

Lee, mine is fitted with the Bilstein Cup suspension and has been reindexed at the rear as well as having some additional rear helper springs. It is stiff, but is settling down a bit, now that I have put around 1000 miles on what were brand new springs and dampers.

They charged me £175 plus VAT, which included corner weighting. Danny, who did it, used to set up a 944 turbo race car a few years back, so he knows the cars too.

Unit 11 get a guy in to do the a/c regassing and he did a 964 today too - mine had been converted to 134a already, but that was the point at which the leaky condensor became evident, hence I didn't get it gassed again until I had fitted the new condensor. Approx £70 plus vat for regassing, I think.

No affiliation at all, but great bunch of guys to deal with.

Thanks for that Nick, always good to hear good recommendations for work on our vehicles.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Lemon


Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

Lee, I think you'll find that R12 is now illegal so you shouldn't find anyone still offering it. If you do then they are being a bit naughty. The conversion is cheap - I was charged £30 last year for it.

Nick - Advice noted regarding seals - i've also been told to get a new filter as well. A bit OT but are your rear wheels 11" or 10"?

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

ORIGINAL: Lemon


Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

Lee, I think you'll find that R12 is now illegal so you shouldn't find anyone still offering it. If you do then they are being a bit naughty. The conversion is cheap - I was charged £30 last year for it.

Nick - Advice noted regarding seals - i've also been told to get a new filter as well. A bit OT but are your rear wheels 11" or 10"?

As I said in my message Scott it is a "retro" R12 replacement, sorry I should have made it clearer. A new R12 in effect, as I realise it is now naughty to use R12 refrigerant[]

 

[Diver944]

Keep a very close eye on the wear to the inner edge of your tyres as 2 degrees is quite a bit more than standard (but it will corner fantastically, with a very 'pointy' nose [8D] )

I used to use a mobile guy who stocked the legal R12 compatible gas. I think it was called R21a, and was completely compliant with the seals in our older systems. Unfortunately he seems to have gone out of business since I last used him so when I get my car back I'll have to finally get converted to R134a []

Whereabouts is Unit11? I am presuming Derby/ Nottingham?

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Keep a very close eye on the wear to the inner edge of your tyres as 2 degrees is quite a bit more than standard (but it will corner fantastically, with a very 'pointy' nose [8D] )

I used to use a mobile guy who stocked the legal R12 compatible gas. I think it was called R21a, and was completely compliant with the seals in our older systems. Unfortunately he seems to have gone out of business since I last used him so when I get my car back I'll have to finally get converted to R134a []

Whereabouts is Unit11? I am presuming Derby/ Nottingham?

Unit 11 is in Warrington Paul ( up north for you boys down south [] )

http://www.unit11.co.uk/default.asp

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

ORIGINAL: Lemon


Sounds really good Nick, think I may do the same to mine as mine is not as confidence inspiring as it has been. Do you have M030 on your car, as you mention you had the front lowered slightly.

Do you mind me asking what they charge for a full geo?

Did Unit 11 regass your car? Need mine looking at thats all. Is yours now running 134a or is it using the retro R12 gas.

Cheers []

Lee, I think you'll find that R12 is now illegal so you shouldn't find anyone still offering it. If you do then they are being a bit naughty. The conversion is cheap - I was charged £30 last year for it.

Nick - Advice noted regarding seals - i've also been told to get a new filter as well. A bit OT but are your rear wheels 11" or 10"?

Scott, rear wheels are 10".

Cheers

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Keep a very close eye on the wear to the inner edge of your tyres as 2 degrees is quite a bit more than standard (but it will corner fantastically, with a very 'pointy' nose [8D] )

I used to use a mobile guy who stocked the legal R12 compatible gas. I think it was called R21a, and was completely compliant with the seals in our older systems. Unfortunately he seems to have gone out of business since I last used him so when I get my car back I'll have to finally get converted to R134a []

Whereabouts is Unit11? I am presuming Derby/ Nottingham?

Paul, you are quite right about the potential tyre wear, but with me only doing 5000 miles a year in it plus a few trackdays, I am more than happy with an element of increased tyre wear in return for the nice and 'pointy' front end as you say!

To be honest, I had been putting off doing my first trackday in it as it just was not inspiring confidence in its handling, whereas now, I cannot wait!

I think even without the front camber, the rest of the changes have made it so much nice to drive - the rear camber and toe settings were miles out and that was affecting how it felt under power and then when lifting off in corners etc.

I have dealt with Jonny at Unit 11 for the past 6-7 yrs, since he did a post-purchase inspection (yes, I know you are meant to get a pre-purchase inspection, but I was 'young' and foolhardy...[8|][]) on my 964 C4 and I would recommend them to anyone, for friendly and honest service at decent rates. He has recently expanded slightly and Danny is his engine builder amongst other things (like geometry set ups etc!) and yesterday they had 4 911 engines in various states of rebuild, plus a 944 trackday car with full cage etc.

911 & Porsche World magazine went down last week to do a feature on them - appearing in the September issue I think.

I'll shut up now with the eulogising.....[8|][]


Oh, Lee the price for the Geo work is charged by the hour - so if it takes longer because all of your nuts and bolts are seized up etc, then it may be slightly more. As my suspension was all renewed barely 6 months ago, I don't think it was too bad. Jonny quotes around 3 hours work for a full set up and corner weighting.

 

[appletonn]

Some figures...









Setting Front Rear

Camber -2.7 -1.8

Caster 2.4 Left 2.35 Right

Toe In 10-15 min 20-25 min


Corner weights 356 Left 357 Left
359 Right 362 Right





The corner weights reflect the added weight of the set up bars etc that were bolted to the car at the time, plus all of the tools and bottle of oil that I had stowed in the boot, ready for my Le Mans trip. So I'd guestimate around 1380KG without those bits but with 3/4 of a tank of fuel... ... a heavy old Hector[8|][]

 

[zcacogp]

Nick,

Glad the geo had such a dramatic effect. 2 degrees of camber is a lot, but if it is a toy and you can live with the tyre wear then go for it!

I had the geo done when I rebuilt my suspension last year, and I harbour a slight niggling feeling that the (dramatic) improvement in handling after all the work was done was as much due to the geo as it was to the new suspension. Which is ironic, as the suspension cost about 4 times more than the geo!

BTW, for anyone dahn sarth, I used Tony Bones at Wheels in Motion (http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/) to have the work done. No affiliation but excellent service and I'd recommend them. (And very reasonable prices.)


Oli.

 

[Wigeon Incognito]

That sounds like a good result!

I might be interested in having my geometry done soon as my wishbones/ball joints should be replaced at the weekend (again this is dependant on the car ever returning from the bodyshop) so it's good to know about Unit 11.

Off topic: What is the other car in the photos?

As a car geek I need to know, my best guess is a Micra but the wheels don't seem to match the black mirrors/handles.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: Wigeon Incognito

That sounds like a good result!

I might be interested in having my geometry done soon as my wishbones/ball joints should be replaced at the weekend (again this is dependant on the car ever returning from the bodyshop) so it's good to know about Unit 11.

Off topic: What is the other car in the photos?

As a car geek I need to know, my best guess is a Micra but the wheels don't seem to match the black mirrors/handles.

Ah a fellow car geek!

Gold star and go to the top of the class, that is indeed my wife's Micra - the wheels are aftermarket ones that I bought when I got the car[]

Look forward to seeing your car, once it returns from the bodyshop.

Mine goes in at the end of June[]

 

[Wigeon Incognito]

I'm not sure whether I should be proud about getting that right or not! Actually, I am proud. My name is Matt and I'm a car geek.

Just spoke to the bodyshop - all is set for a Friday afternoon pick up, woohoo!! Although, as soon as I collect it I'm delivering it to Mike Bainbridge for wishbones, short shift, new bushes, some nice Redline transmission oil (yes I'm bit lazy not doing that myself), a new idle control valve and a couple of things I've probably forgotten!

 

[appletonn]

Excellent news! I've heard lots of good things about Mike Bainbridge from a couple of the guys on the 968 forum.

You'll have forgotten how to drive it....[8|][]