suspension options

[mbrands]

Recently I was driving a 993 that needed new shocks and I was trying to decide what suspension set up I would go for using M030 as a starting point.

You could go for replacement M030 shocks, but everyone seems to agree that the Bilstein HDs are better than the OEM Munroes.

But, if you go with the Bilstein HDs with the extra thread, you have the option of taking the car below M030 height to say RS height.

So, here's my question, if you take it to RS height, what geometry settings should you use ? The RS has different suspension components, so does it make sense to adopt RS geometry settings ? Also, the M030 springs were designed to operate at M030 height, does it matter if they are compressed another 10mm ?

 

[Sundeep]

I've got the M030 Springs and antiroll bars on Bilstein HD Shocks, all at M030 heights and IMHO I didn't really see the point of RS settings if you don't have a RS and not a full RS set up (of course it depends on what you are getting up to ?) rather I have a fast road set up, which is somewhere in between of sorts....

works well and maintaining a good balance for normal driving when I don't need the any RS like set up...

but if you're thinking of switching to M030's it is worth IMHO getting the anti-M030 roll bars as well, as that extra stiffness keeps the cars balance...

still have the OEM anti-roll bars if anyone wants them ! 964'ers ?

 

[delta]

The H+R set up that I've fitted is fantastic. It has adjustable ride height but no adjustability in the shocks (unlike ps09's) but with the thicker ARB's the cornering is suberb. I'll be at croft later this monthwith PCGB if anyone wants a ride out in it (passenger ride that is!!)[]

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: Sundeep
...still have the OEM anti-roll bars if anyone wants them ! 964'ers ?

Could you please elaborate sir ...

 

[Sundeep]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

ORIGINAL: Sundeep
...still have the OEM anti-roll bars if anyone wants them ! 964'ers ?

Could you please elaborate sir ...

they are current tucked away in the shed of sorts ! throw them or away or stuck them on ebay ?

btw, Maurice I know the stats and the rules of bar stiffness, so I'll dig out the data from GT-One set up.... which was far better than the set up done by AmD last year..... even though they were attempting to achieve the same

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: Sundeep

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

ORIGINAL: Sundeep
...still have the OEM anti-roll bars if anyone wants them ! 964'ers ?

Could you please elaborate sir ...

they are current tucked away in the shed of sorts ! throw them or away or stuck them on ebay ?

Sorry Sundeep what I meant was could you tell me why a 964'er might be interested in standard 993 anti-roll bars? As I have a set of standard 993 anti-roll bars sitting in my garage after M030 converstion and now have a 964 as well ...

 

[laura]

So what's with this 964 then Ian - I'm obviously a bit out of touch!

Laura

 

[38F3E1]

Bought as a daily driver Laura and it's doing the job grand

 

[angry]

Hi,
I have Bilstien HD Shocks,H+R Springs and thicker anti roll bars with new bushes and drop links.
I got them as a package from Gert at http://www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm for 1421,75 euro delivered.
He was very helpful,and my 993 c2 1994 has been transformed.
It handles outstandingly and still has a very acceptable degree of comfort and is about RS hieght ish.
Ive also had a bit of negative camber adjustment ,we go to the ring 5-6 times a year and it is fantastic.

Cheers Dan.

 

[Sundeep]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

ORIGINAL: Sundeep

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

ORIGINAL: Sundeep
...still have the OEM anti-roll bars if anyone wants them ! 964'ers ?

Could you please elaborate sir ...

they are current tucked away in the shed of sorts ! throw them or away or stuck them on ebay ?

Sorry Sundeep what I meant was could you tell me why a 964'er might be interested in standard 993 anti-roll bars? As I have a set of standard 993 anti-roll bars sitting in my garage after M030 converstion and now have a 964 as well ...

IIRC the front bar on the 964 is 20mm v 21mm of the 993 so an upgrade....

but I guess the rear is a different matter, not sure about design of size but most likely a no on both counts..... but the refuse looks like a more likely result, sadly !

 

[kbooker]

Gents,
While on the subject of suspension upgrades, comments & opinions from guys running PSS9 on their cars would be very welcome.
Thanks in advance,

 

[mbrands]

Thanks everyone, that's quite helpful. I think it will end up being HDs with M030 at M030 height and geometry.

But I still have a couple more questions; if one were to opt for HDs, M030 and and RS height / geometry, why not just get RS springs and dampers instead ? Are they too harsh, or sub-optimal ?

Dan (Angry), you got the HDs and H&R springs from Gert; did you just go with RS geometry ? Who installed them for you ?

Cheers,
Marc

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

ORIGINAL: MoC2S

And then you'd feel compelled to do the front control arms and uprights, rear control arms, subframe, transmission and engine mounts etc, etc ....

Hey, its only money ! []

cheers, Maurice []

.................the problem being that you'd end up with little to no improvement, or indeed you can very easily end up with the car being worse to drive than when you started. Oh yes - you'll be a lot worse off financially into the bargain[]. The thing to remember is, I suppose, that it is very easy to get caught up on the psychological roller-coaster which says more money spent equals a greater benefit!

Regards

 

[angry]

Marc,
I started off with pretty standard Geo,with -2 minutes/degrees camber all round,JZ Machtech fitted it.
Iwas still getting worn tyres on the outside[>:] at the ring(and to and from).
So now after a lot of asking around i have -3.5 minutes on the back.
I have found an excellent guy,who has been racing porsches for 40 years and along with his son do all porsche work.
Their workshops are very basic and they use old school flat/level floor and manaul measuring equipment.
They are based in Nazeing near Broxbourne and they charge £35 an hour.
They know everything about all porsches and i trust them.
In the dry it is very very very hard to loose the back end on my 993 since they have worked on it.
Highly recommended.
Harvey racing 01992 462662.
Dan

 

[angry]

M,
As regards the last ?,i dont know,they are very old school,i would guess a long straight piece of wood[8|] and some measurments,they just dont seem to trust any of this modern equipment.
Yes i am running Corsas,we dont do many road(home)miles at all,but we do drive to and from the ring 400 miles each way(800)and have done one trip on the new tyres with only about 20 laps and the tyres are over half worn on the OUTSIDE[8|] and still like new on the inside,that was with -2 degrees all round!!!(Set up by JZ Machtech on alignment machine)
So i am a bit confused,thats why i have had the extra camber,and toe in/out adjustment(by Harvey)to see if i get some wear on the inside,along with even better handling on the ring.

In regard to Geometry i spoke to a guy in Germany who used to work in the factory making the alignment machines,and they were set up using the old manual equipment and he said they can go critically out of calibration within 10-20 setups,depending on the user.My guess is a lot of garages dont get thier machines calibrated very often at all,so i tend to trust Harvey with his old manual way of doing things.The car seems much more planted,runs a dead straight course and the next trip will show with the tyre wear(Sept 30-oct4) if anyone else is going.
Dan

 

[angry]

Hi,
Fair point,but ive just come back from what started as a gentle trot out on my favourite little circular route of about 60 miles.On the way back there was a rather irresponsable gentleman in his maserati(not sure of spelling) to cut a long story short weve just been along our local deserted bit of dual carriageway,which is curvy and bumpy at well over 150mph for several miles and the car is rock solid,...apologies for those who think that was a bit over the top[][][]my hands are still shaking[].
My point is that if there was any real problem,im sure i would have found out.

When i first started going to the Ring the car had done 78000 miles and to the history i do not think it had had any geometery setup,it was very boaty,with old worn out tyres on, but it certainly wasnt dangerous.
Ive had a fair bit of trackday/racing experience now and i do think that perfection is very hard to find.
I have ridden ex-dispach motorcycles with totally shot suspension and still managed a fun trackday on them.
With the state of British roads most settings will probably be knocked out of shape by the time youve done 500 miles or so if you wanted to be critical.

That said if taking your car to a proven garage to have geometery and setup will make you feel comfortable and happy,then that is what you should do.

Incidentally my little 101000 mile 265bhp 1994 993c2 just held off that Maserati very well,i think they are at least 350-450 bhp arent they?
Cheers Dan