Suspension update advice required

[Peter Empson]

I've just heard back from my garage and it seems the damage isn't too bad, so I'm going to go through as many parts as I can whilst its all in pieces and will take the opportunity to properly lower it, rebuild the Leda with an even stiffer setup and change anything else that's worthwhile. So can anyone help me with my shopping list, so far I'm thinking of the following:

-Mo30 wishbones, to be fitted with:
-Rennbay 19mm track geometary correction kit
-Powerflex Poly bushes throughout

Still to be decided:
-Adjustable camber plates, probably Racers Edge as they were mentioned recently
-Possibly Elephant Racing torsion bar mounts or similar.

I need to start ordering bits today or tomorrow so would appreciate as many recommendations as possible.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Peter Empson]

Also, out of interest, what is everybody else running spring rate wise? I'm at 300 front and 150 rear.

 

[944Turbo]

300 front, turbo torsion bar rear, the following came from leda,


Uprated road

Fronts 250lb
Rears N/A (torsion bar)[/LIST][/LIST]
Fast Road / Trackday


Fronts 275lb to 350lb
Rears 100lb to 200lb (as an assistor to torsion bar[/LIST][/LIST]
Track Day


Fronts 350lb to 475lb
Rears 200lb to 300lb (with torsion bar)
Rears 325lb to 450lb (without torsion bar) (semi-slick tyre)[/LIST][/LIST]
Race / Circuit


Fronts 500lb to 600lb (race slick tyres)
Rears 475 lb to 575lb (without torsion bar) (race slick tyres)[/LIST][/LIST]
Does your car roll more or are you just trying harder? []

Tony

 

[944Turbo]

Oh and a few years back there were photos of a broken rear bottom mount on rennlist, the car was running coilovers without TBars and the rear suspension arm cracked,
Tony

 

[sawood12]

The Racers Edge top mounts look good but Paragon Products does a casor and camber adjustable top mount that is a bit cheaper and worth a look at. Not sure how it compares to the Racers Edge top mount but it is of a similar construction and almost identical to the Lindsay Racing camber adjustable top mounts but with slots for castor adjustment as well.

http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/pp_944ccp.htm

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks guys!
Like the look of the Paragon camber mounts, and they do seem very reasonably priced.

Looks like I can go quite a bit stiffer on the spring rates, probably about 400 front and 250 might make sense. Tony, given that I'm running the torsion bars I would hope that the rear suspension should be up to the job, but I wonder if it would be worth looking into possible reinforcements?

The only other thing I can see that is another weak area is the hubs, and whilst going to billet aluminium ones is tempting I think the cost is going to get a bit extreme! []

 

[Peter Empson]

Just spoken to Leda and have pretty much decided on the 400 and 250 setup (but you never know it might go up to 450 and 300 by tomorrow!). They'll also revalve the dampers so that the old mid settting (which I used for road) is now the minimum, so that I can go even firmer when on track []

 

[944Turbo]

I think the car that broke was running very high rates, my rennlist membership has run out which limits the search abilities. I would think a combined rate (torsions plus helpers) should be allright, thinking about it (but without looking so could be wrong) if it did fracture the metal blade would keep the wheel roughly located so it shouldn't be as nasty as recent front failure.
IIRC Leda also do a top mount, not sure what it is like what adjustment though.

My view on adjustable top mounts is unless you use the 2 extremes it would be very difficult to reset it accurately before / after a trackday - with a laser 4 wheel alignment you dont need much movement to put out the figures. However not having them cant say wether this would be a problem or not in practice.
If you set them at one end of travel and adjusted th camber for a road set up, then I guess you could adjust for track and return to the end stop for your road settings, you should be almost spot on.
However I guess if you dont mind uneven tyre wear on the road they will allow extra adjustment over the standard settings.

Tony

 

[Peter Empson]

I agree Tony, I don't think I'll be changing the settings of the camber plates as this repeatability is a worry, I just want to get rid of the standard rubber part and whilst I could go with the KLA fixed one I thought I might as well have the option in case I ever change my mind.

 

[John Sims]

Take care on you choice of top mounts. IIRC Ricks adjustable turned out lower than the standard mounts and give WUF something of a Rally Cross stance, even with the M030's screwed right down - shouldn't have any ball joint issues though []

I'm ordering some Powerflex bushes tomorrow (when I've decided what else to get from Demon Tweeks). I seem to recall Fen had some issues with his bushes but they are the only UK supply I have found so far.

I'm going for front wishbone bushes (because my soon to be refurbished units haven't got any) and anti roll bar mounts because my offside one seems to be contaminated with oil. [8|] So that'll be another £100+ [] If someone says running a 944 is cheap they are going to get such a smacking.

I hate jacking up cars and keep finding myself looking at the air jack page []. A sod to accomodate on a road car but I would think a must for a track car.

 

[Hilux]

keep finding myself looking at the air jack page

Whilst slumbering on the train commute home tonight I thought my already lowered car will be lower so how will I get my current jack under it and thought about an air jack too...........[]

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

I'm ordering some Powerflex bushes tomorrow (when I've decided what else to get from Demon Tweeks). I seem to recall Fen had some issues with his bushes but they are the only UK supply I have found so far.

Stu sells Powerflex at http://www.k300performance.co.uk/ and always gives a good price to fellow club members.

It's one of the reasons our cars are so cheap to run

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

I agree Tony, I don't think I'll be changing the settings of the camber plates as this repeatability is a worry, I just want to get rid of the standard rubber part and whilst I could go with the KLA fixed one I thought I might as well have the option in case I ever change my mind.

I don't need the adjustability of them either but I just think the Paragon/Lindsay Racing/Racers Edge ones look so good from an engineering design point of view. I'd rather spend US$350 on something substantial than £100 on the KLA's that, although function OK some people have found reasons to criticise.

If Rick had problems setting the ride height on his Linsay Racing ones then the Paragon ones will be similar as they look like they are essentially the same product. And I think Rick is running more or less on standard ride height?? If so if you want to go lower you will probably struggle. Looks like the Racers Edge ones might be a better punt then. Anyone know of any other sources of Racers Edge stuff?

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: John Sims
If someone says running a 944 is cheap they are going to get such a smacking.

John- i've got something to say here and you might want to sit down before you read this in case you didn't realise before. A Link MAP system, uprated suspension, Big Black upgrade kits and all your other bells and whistles are not absolutely necessary. You could just keep the car standard!! Then i'd argue that a 944 is comparable in running costs to a modern family car.[] (by the way, after three years i've just sussed out how to use the smiley's!!).

 

[Big Dave]

John
Like Paul has said,, Give Stu a call at K300 performance..Im SURE he,ll be cheaper than Demon Thieves...
I got ALL my Poly bushes from him...
Ive done the front wishbones , the 968 M030 arbs + it defo brings the car together...

Next mod ,
Elephant racing torsion tube bushes. There sitting on the dinning room table as i type...As are the rest of the rear "solid" bushes...+ the "Motorsport" gearbox mount[ NOT solid],, is whinging its way across the pond as i type...
That means the rear beam etc is coming off again.....[8|][8|][8|][8|]
Im looking forward to this years T-dayz....[][][][]

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

John- i've got something to say here and you might want to sit down before you read this in case you didn't realise before. A Link MAP system, uprated suspension, Big Black upgrade kits and all your other bells and whistles are not absolutely necessary. You could just keep the car standard!!

You see, that's just the point. At least 50% of my upgrades (probably more) come about when the original component has either failed or is about to. Most of the upgrades cost no more (and often less) than a new Porsche replacement and when ever I have tried to be cheap and use second hand parts they have ultimately needed replacing any way so, in many cases, they were a false economy.

I accept that increasing the power puts greater strain on the car and so accelerates the demise of other components, but I also have a 230 bhp 4wd 4 door saloon. If the Porsche wasn't quicker what would be the point in keeping it?

Thanks for the tips on the Powerflex bushes guys.

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Dave,
Sounds similar to where I may be once it's all done, I'm intending to get every Powerflex bush that will fit []

I've just been reading about a solid mount for the steering too (from RS barn and others) which looks like a good 'while we're in there' mod.

I'm still tempted to go to manual steering and no matter how much I read about other people's experiences I just cannot make up my mind if this will be one compromise too far given its daily use involves parallel parking. [&:]

I'm also now considering the Dynatech camber plates given the comments about ride height issues above, I'm just waiting to hear back about availability and price.

 

[Fen]

I have at least one set of PowerFlex wishbone front bushes in the garage that I never fitted (and won't now) that you can have, John.

 

[John Sims]

Top man - I shall PM you.

 

[Peter Empson]

Oooh, just discovered from a thread on Rennlist that Leda now offer their own camber plates, I gave them a call and they are able to fit them to my struts with a bit of modification. []

Can't quite believe the low price I've been quoted over the phone so won't mention it here just yet, but they look nicely made from the pics and should solve any worries about not being able to set the ride height low enough.