'tame' 420 bhp V'™s 570bhp monster - surprising results !

[marcus a]

I recently pitted my 'tame' 420 bhp 996 turbo tip against my mates 570bhp modified turbo manual. My car is a standard car but my friends has revised suspension, brakes, modified engine, bigger turbos, sports exhaust etc.etc. to the cost of about £35k. Under a rolling road test it has 570 bhp and I know this to be true. So a futile attempt you would think and quite honestly I expect to get trounced.
We stopped at the lights on an empty dual carriageway had a quick chat of the rules, and then floored our cars to the max. To my amazement I kept up, actually better than that we stayed side by side up to about 80mph when I eased off. Shaking his head now and looking rather disappointed at the next set of lights we did exactly the same but this time up to 98mph when I eased off again as there was a bend coming up and he sped off sounding like a jet fighter! But at this point again we were virtually exactlly side by side, I'd even go to say I was a couple of metres in front!
When we stopped and chatted he's absolutley convinced I have at the very least an X50, I'm sure I don't, but the only thing we could come up with was the traction control, his was flashing and fighting for grip, mine didn't flicker.
At the time, due to running low on fuel I was on Morrisson's finest and was nearly carrying a full tank, I usually expect to get a little more pull from Optimax. Over 100mph I'm sure he would have pulled away but are all these mods worth it for anything less??

 

[Blade_uk]

I hope this was on a private road & not the public highway[][][]

 

[marcus a]

oh yes I forgot to mention that the experiment was all done on a private roads and under controlled conditions
and don't try this at home..

 

[sssammm]

I actually tried a similar experiment today on the M25 in my 993TT X50, but i forgot to check my speedo.........

I got punished for it on the way home... round the north circular, taking 2 hours to go 23 miles, sheer hell.

sam

 

[996_STEVO]

I would expect to see your friends car pulling away (slightly) around the 50/60 mark, like I and your friend he will more than likely be runing K24's on the car, and these little K16's on your car are bloody quick to spool up and give instant power, you might even find if you had a manual that you would have jumped him in the first 60ft. As regards to your friends car I would say after 60/70 he will start leaving you for dust, I found a huge difference around this speed, the mid range pull the k24's have are awesome.

 

[marcus a]

I'll have words with him because I think I might know where there's a 'private' motorway for a proper mid range test and report back. I suspect he didn't get out of 2nd gear on the previous test....

 

[Diver944]

It doesn't matter how much power you've got if it's overcoming the mechanical grip at the wheels and activating the traction control all the time.

I would expect a different outcome on a totally dry, non greasy, warm summer road and also at speeds in excess of three figures where the ability to spin his wheels will be less.

 

[marcus a]

just to be clear the road was bone dry, you see we don't get much rain up north....

 

[996_STEVO]

There would not be a different result (if it was dry, which it was)

Never under estimate these K16's, these little things spool quick as, and I would have a good bet that from 0-60 these will stick with a K24 car, after that the K24's would start to pull where as the K16's start to run out of puff!

 

[TTX50]

Marcus

A friend of mine had a 2003 Turbo which he asumed was standard - he had it Revo'd and couldnt beleive the results on a dyno - it turned out the car had K24's yet there was no X50 code under the bonnet

 

[Alex L]

Well if you look at the standard 997 Turbo test results against these modified cars ones released in a recent german car magazine report:

997 Turbo Stock (480 bhp)
0-200 kph in 12.3 sec.
0-250 kph in 20.7 sec.

997 Turbo 9ff (535 bhp)
0-200 kph in 11.2 sec.
0-250 kph in 18.4 sec.

997 Turbo Gemballa (550 bhp)
0-200 kph in 11.6 sec.
0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

997 Turbo Speedart (530 bhp)
0-200 kph in 11.8 sec.
0-250 kph in 20.2 sec.

997 Turbo Techart (580 bhp, modified or no VTG?)
0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

997 Turbo Wendland (530 bhp)
0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

You can see that there's really not that much in it. Plus you end up spending a fortune, invalidating your warrantee and probably shortening your engine's life expectancy!

 

[nathan 1981 930 G50]

Those results do not surprise me. 9ff is a respectable tuner IMO. As for Gembella & Techart, well the results of those figures go with my perception.

This may be of interest to you. The man I buy my tuning parts from in the USA.

The 997TT in stock form is a wonderful car. I have owned many turbos and Porsches in general and the old saying holds true, Porsche makes them better with every new model. Coming out of a 996TT making well over 690 Wheel HP makes anything other than a jet seem slow. I was impressed and disappointed at the same time upon receiving my car. The ergonomics and little touches were correct this time, the ride, suspension, handling were great, stopping power is unreal. Heck, my last car the upgrade I used for brakes is now a standard in the TT today. Porsche clearly with the program.

The one thing I felt lacking, power. All the hype of no lag and big HP left me with a few clear impressions. The car had lag plain and simple. Nothing as bad as a K24, but when they boast no lag you expect instant power like the no lag a Harrier Jet uses to hover off and launch! You could clearly feel the car utilize the sport chrono and that extra 10 seconds of boost, but some how my watch never showed 10 seconds of over boost in any band. A blip often left me wondering if my car was not correct. As you stay in the power and reach near redline the car would almost feel like it was being held back, almost a stutter of sorts in the power band. In the upper ranges the car seemed to launch hard then nose off and then come back in to finish big. It is like a switch being flipped on and off then when that last big surge the ride was over, redline was present.

I have learned to enjoy the car as is. And with each new mod brings character and more importantly drivability.

Recapping the prior test all the dynos were run in-house on our 500SE AWD Mustang Dyno. Latest SAE correction, self reporting weather station and latest calibration done 1 week prior to runs. The bumper is removed, independent fans run on each intercooler, engine bay, under the car on the exhaust and the front radiators. Car is run in Sport mode, 91 octane in the tank.

In the exhaust test we found that the exhaust was a big cork. Carrying large back pressure kept the turbos from breathing and robbed HP. Where we left off was our exhaust test yielding an increase to 450HP and 457TQ to the wheels. This was up from the initial 429HP and 440TQ.

Our latest round of testing and development has turned to ECU tuning. It seems that the whole market has been requesting, waiting for this modification. After all, this is the reason I bought my TT the first time, the second time, and now this third generation of turbo. All of our programming is done with Garrett from GIAC. We all spend hours upon hours of testing and development with Garrett and Todd. There have been two big priorities that have added time to this R&D process and the final release. First, exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs) are important and they needed to be monitored with the proper tool. These new turbos are incredibly sensitive to heat. Second, there are anti-tuning functions within the 997TT DME detectable by this factory scan tool. It has been a priority to make sure that the EGTs are happy and that the software is factory scan tool compatible to avoid factory service problems. One could modify only part of the DME program however it may raise red flags during a factory service. Not something we wanted. It was also imperative that the software be made to flash and we didn't have to remove the physical chip like some tuners currently do.

The ECU must be flashed out of the car and done on a bench. We have been bench flashing for over a year and a half now so this is nothing new. Currently all flashes on the 997TT will have to be done out of the car and bench flashed. We use a partial harness with OBD2 port and simply plug into the ECU like it was in the car.

Now the good part. My car based 429/440. We removed the exhaust and placed the factory exhaust back on the car. Base line was established like the last runs, 8-10 runs until the numbers overlapped done another. Typically 5 minutes between runs to bring IAT and EGTs down to previous tested levels. Our runs yields an increase to 480HP and 480TQ. Don't let the numbers fool you. Yes, the gains are great. That is almost 50 HP to the wheels. But more importantly the car now does many different things. Running the car in sport mode, the 2-4K rpm range will blast 1.2 bar almost immediately. It does not flicker once, just solid until it settles in to 1.0-1.1 bar at redline. Additionally, the upper end dip that I felt is now gone. The boost is no longer all over the map and more linear. It is clear in the curve and drivability as well. The power under the curve as seen in the dyno is a huge improvement.