Thanks - 993 Questions Day at PCGB HQ

[matthewb]

Many thanks to Ken Coad for organising today and for his personal welcome as I drove in (slight exageration). And of course, Peter Morgan, for his excellent MC'ing.

What a day.

A brilliant drive in, catching the chap in the orangey-red turbo that I'd let pass when I stopped at Benson services for supplies, and then joining a grey Carrera-S (once we'd circumvented the lego brick separating us). There was a small blockage problem with a white Transit but we sorted that [8D]. We approached the left-turn at Chipping Norton to continue on the A44 but the lead car headed straight on, the turbo twitched and jumped lanes to follow and I decided to do likewise. I figured they were probably heading my way and if they weren't I had enough time to recover the situation. Then we missed another left-turn for the A44 - my faith-factor was at maximum. Suddenly, a vigorous left, down what initially appeared to be a single-track road but which turned into a glorious, undisturbed run to rejoin the A44. Superb. A similar convey made its way home afterwards. Thanks gents.

The Q&A sessions were extremely informative - I found it especially interesting to hear the panel's view on replacement wishbone bushes and refurbished steering racks etc having just spent the GDP of a small country on my visit to the car clinic. The panel made the 'you can't believe everything you read' argument very well, I thought. Inevitably, the question of which type of oil to use was of great interest to the general gathering! So many subjects were covered (and covered comprehensively) and so many contacts were made for subsequent follow-up etc that I was left feeling satiated.

It was really nice to meet in person many of the people that I have met on this forum (Ken, Maurice, Giles, Mark et al). Next time, dudes []

Finally, a big thanks to the PCGB staff!

Cheers
M




I'm sure lessons

 

[sue11sam]

Hear, Hear!! great day , thanks everyone[]

 

[vic cohen]

Sorry i cud nt be there, driving round in ever decreasing circles somewher in a Park in Cheshire!

Wud be keen to hear what the experts thought abt the replacement bushes and refurbed steering racks ???

Please????

 

[peterarcher]

I can only echo everyone else. A very well organised day, a surprise lunch and surprise raffle - all for a fiver! Coupled with a host of experts on hand and a lively participating audience all made for an exceptional day. I picked up some really good info and a couple of trade connections which I will most certainly use in the future.
It was a beautiful drive in but a slow traffic filled return home - but no where near bad enough to spoil my day.
Well done Ken.
Peter

 

[Andy B Aces High]

For those of us that couldn't be there how about a good decent length write up in the Porsche Post highlighting some of the key Q/A's.

Out of interest looking at the Wishbone bushes myself what was the response ?

 

[sue11sam]

If on a road car stick to the standard units, because some of the stresses are taken up within the wishbone/suspension units. The stiff poly units transmit more of these into the fabric of the car, really changing the handling and the comfort levels, maybe some stress transfer issues also. Track car ? different story[]

 

[szklarek]

An absolutely brilliant drive there and back (thanks for organising the sunshine!) and a really informative day.

Thanks to the organisers, the sponsors and all the panel - they really made the day such a success.

Kind regards
Anton Szklarek

 

[vic cohen]

Thx Mo , Oulton Park worth it but slight hitch ! U dont want to know !

Glad to see comment on bushes, i feel quite strongly on that and the chance of replacements failing/pulling out fatigue in metal work by the time they are replaced etc .....others say i am fussy

Cant see whats wrong with properly conditioned rack though

Ta and Cheers

 

[Taverner]

I would echo all the above. An excellent, well organised day, with lots of useful information available. Which when coupled with good questions from the floor resulted in a good understanding as to the right way and wrong way to do things to our cars.

A big thank you to Ken, Maurice and PCGB staff for giving up their time. Also to the "Experts", without whom the day would not have been possible.

Michael

 

[sidned]

Did I hear that this was going to happen again in the near future? What with it being my youngest's birthday and Mother's Day I fear I would have been locked out if I'd decided to come along to this!

 

[Steve Bramhall]

great day, great drive there and back and learnt a stack whilst there. Just means lots more to do on my car! I will have to go to the next session to find out how to replace my computer backlight!

[]

 

[carrerasport]

I Broadly agree with replacing the control arm complete with new bushes,but they are unjustifiably expensive now £260 per side when only a couple of years ago they were £160 and that price rise was in one go& overnight, along with an awful lot of other general parts for all of the older vehicles,The price alignment as they called it, just made everything expensive.But what really hurts is that the new arms dont last anything like as long as the originals,I know an owner who had a new pair of arms just before the price increase and they were showing early signs of unbonding at under 2 years , it was not bad enough at the time to issue warranty replacements (although one opc said they were and the selling dealer said they were not) having examined them at three and a bit years old the unbonding has continued and is showing signs of becoming quite considerble now.I would not be happy with that kind of life expectancy for the money.
I dont think the increased harshness of the ride is easily detected with the solid replacement bushes and if you fit a set they will certainly outlast the versions porsche has on offer. Steve Mchale mentioned that the replacement bushes make the arm a bit stiff unlike the genuine rubber ones.This is true and an undesirable characteristic of them at inital fittment.But it will be interesting to see what they are like in a few years.I dont really buy into the weakening of the alloy arm itself theory a long as the old bushes are removed properly.

As an interesting note, if you have stiff suspension(m030) the Std bushes last much longer as they dont get the deflection they would on a std or mo33 car.This would hold true with aftermarket springs as long as you dont deviate too far from the factory ride height because if you do go too low(rs spec) or indeed too high, the front bush (which is the quickest deteriorating one) has a locating lug to position it on the subframe and that bush will be under twisting tension constantly if you go too high or low.This will overcome the bonding very quickly.There should be no tension on any of the rubber flexible suspension bushes anywhere on the car at rest.This is why when these components are removed or replaced they are always finally tightened on the bush end with the car in its running state (i.e on its wheels, suspension settled in by brieflly driving)If you want to run low you need to run rs control arms (and ideally rs front uprights/hubs/steering rack ball joint/rod ends so that the steering rack alignment is maintained)or remove and reposition the bush in the control arm to take the tension ouy of it(that is near impossible to do without damage to the bush) The replacement bushes have no such drawbacks from a ride height point of view,So should be considered at least.There are a number or makes around , one being the ones geoff everet developed and made by powerflex, there are some marketed by gert at carnewal (manufacturer unknown) and he is quite fussy about what he sells.and one other brand the name of which escapes me(english company i think) thay are all slightly different in their designs and gerts are the only ones to use the original steel center of the porsche bush,powerflex ones come with their own stainless steelware.They all seem to exhibt the undesirable stiffness when first fitted.(it wouldn't really factor much with a tonne and a half pressed down on top of them) But i would be happier if they were a little more compliant when installed.
not sure what i am saying about which way you all should go but just a few points about each option.
regards C

 

[sue11sam]

We were talking on this topic about experts view on aftermaket bushes over porsche standard units, and the view of the panel was that for road use the standard unit was preferable, but that for track cars poly units were worth considering, partly because of stresses generated and transmitted to the car when using the poly units, which did not happen with standard units.

 

[matthewb]

The problem with a "properly conditioned rack" is that the spare parts needed to do the recondition properly are no longer available. As a result, I understand, the reconditioned units are now made from the least worn-out parts of used racks.

 

[Mark Elder]

Echoing all the other thanks - Ken & Maurice and the Cornbury House staff - you did a great job of organising.

Big thanks also to the panel - some really in depth advice and (if only I lived down-south) it would definately have made them switch to using their services - indeed I might still do that one day if I need some significant working doing.

Well worth the drive down from Glasgow (any excuse!) - and it was a good drive - followed one of you (blue C2, or was it a Targa?) on the start of the journey home and we met a wonderful looking 356 cab for a mile or two.

Good to meet so many of you.

Mark

 

[vic cohen]

Thank u all very reasonable............as in all things nice to know who ur buying from and then the product usually turns out to be reliable ........

The bushes story FWIW i think is lethal ! The day one pulled out on a track with someone close by was not funny at all .........no excuse for saving money as someone suggested how expensive they are ............object lessons like that are we ll learnt , to me its like never mess about with brakes , just do them

 

[Johnny C]

I had poly bushes fitted to my (standard suspension and unlowered) C2 last year by 9M. A few lbs difference in tyre pressure made more difference than I noticed with the new bushes. The only thing I really noticed was that some road surfaces are slightly noisier at low speed.

 

[sue11sam]

Tyre wear ?

 

[edition]

Hi,

Can anybody remember the name of the company that did the paint treatments that did a talk?

 

[szklarek]

Langley Autocraft did the paintwork and GTechniq Ltd did the performance paint coating.

Regards
Anton