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The Beast Version 1.0

okellyt

PCGB Member
Member
Well after a lot of tinkering and consideration the Beast has now reached its basic configuration or for techies Version 1.0

We've tinkered for a while with various intakes and chewed over various options

A couple of you have driven the beast with the torque turned right up entertainingly chavvy but a big lag at 2 -3 k revs and felt a little like the turbo (on or off).

Having tried a few things on porscheshop's new toy (a 997 C2S with GT3 conversion body kit) we settled on some changes and the beast went in for tis 40k mile service and "probably" final transformation.

So changes;

- Single Mass sprung flywheel and upgrades Sach's Clutch
- Bespoke (new) proscheshop induction system - they will be on sale shortly...
- Bilstein B16 Damptronics (PASM)
- Viezu "3D" remap - live remap on rolling road to optimize the cars flexibility and overall performance

Also since I last reported the disks had worn again so we went with turbo disks all around round (350mm) this has greatly improved stability under braking and improved overall stopping power

The changes were chosen as incremental the existing PASM Dampers were shot, the clutch also was on its last legs. Neither helped by the recent "ring" trip

Result

A very different car - much more in gear flexibility much more neutral handling (more pointy) and much more responsive (flywheel).

We've eliminated the large flat spot between 2k & 3k revs. Previously the Torque fell off a cliff from 2k revs to approx 2.k and gradually came back up until 3k revs. With the single mass flywheel we've lost some of that low down torque - resulting in a linear torque curve from tick over to just under 3k revs. then a table top flat curve across the rev range to nearly 7k revs, after which it falls off.

This means on the road the car pulls harder and harder with revs well up to near 7k revs. (Peak power is now about 6.8k revs).

We've dropped the peak torque a little but now have it across a much wider range (peak torque at the wheels from 2.8k to near 7k) combined with the much free revving nature of the engine with the single mass flywheel it just jets around the rev range and therefore through the speedo numbers to very naughty numbers very quickly. The linear torque delivery hides the real pull. Ony when you push on the brakes do you notice that you've been forced quite hard into the seat under the growing acceleration.

|The ungraded suspension is very new and hard to compare with the older suspension as after the ring it was pretty much shot - a lot of peoples PASM dampers seem to have given their best by 40k miles. The car had got quite bouncy at speed but still retained Chris' geometry settings where 20k miles earlier it was quite stable. At the moment the new dampers are harsher riding under about 40mph. about the same at 40mph and much smother and much much more confidence inspiring over 50mph. The car is much flatter through curves and corners again disguising the velocity its running up.

So an altogether much more mature car, that could easily have comes straight out of the factory.

I did have to test the beast on the the slip roads from a fuel stop up to motorway speed its still rabidly fast over 3k revs but now it is in 2nd and 3rd as well as 4th. Previous set up had me short changing to 4th to really surfing the torque it never seemed to rev as freely in 2nd/3rd (against he clutch had had it so this could have been the factor).

So it feels like a brand new car - a full 40k service thrown in.

The beast lives.............................................

 
Well done Tom always good to read about your upgrades. It must be a GT 3 now in all but name
 
Tom, you really need to fit some Racelogic kit to see how your car has progressed.

I myself keep getting asked to go along to Bruntingthorpe and fit some GPS loggers to see how fast the CG/RS-Tuning 544 kit really is. So perhaps we should go together?
 

ORIGINAL: Alex L

Tom, you really need to fit some Racelogic kit to see how your car has progressed.

I myself keep getting asked to go along to Bruntingthorpe and fit some GPS loggers to see how fast the CG/RS-Tuning 544 kit really is.  So perhaps we should go together?

Very tempting[8|]
 

ORIGINAL: bobfair

Well done Tom always good to read about your upgrades. It must be a GT 3 eaternow in all but name

Bob

just edited out your typo and out the proper wording in[8|][8|][8|]

Were running a little bit less power as it only revs to 7450rpm not 9k BUT its running a LOT more torque, all the way through the rev range. The b16's are on their standard ride hight so there is more compliance in the suspension for fast road use.

So guessing on track the Beast (the original 997 GTS Mr Porsche) would loose out quite easily to a GT3 BUT on the road, If i had more talent...................

E7B09E6805B3417AA410E8136D88B7B3.gif
 
Good job Tom,

Well done on the engine mods. Should be a tour de force on the roads now.
3.gif


Regards,

Clive
 
Chatting with Tom and Ian over the weekend it does seem that they feel the flat spot has indeed gone [:)]
Glad to hear the drive home was satisfactory Tom..

Hopefully those fine flat French roads next month will let the car flourish...[8D]

garyw
 
I meant to ask Tom how does a single mass sprung flywheel work? I thought on a single mass flywheel the "springing" was incorporated into the clutch plate (which is what I have on the Marlin) Makes for a rather more "bitey" clutch as well as saving weight etc.[:)]
 
I have been tempted by a LWFW in the past, but 3 things hold me back:

1) The rattle at idle
2) Having to rev at idle
3) Warnings from Porsche to GT3 owners fitting a GT3RS LWFW saying it can cause engine problems *see link below

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/202994-new-clutch-required-6.html#post2967256

Video of LWFW rattle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=122q4vSlasI
 

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

ORIGINAL: okellyt
the Beast (the original 997 GTS Mr Porsche)
Think your bum (well, the car's anyway) needs to be an inch or two wider Tom![;)]

mmm, big bums can look nice, but slimmer bums are lighter and more agile[;)][;)]
 

ORIGINAL: Alex L

I have been tempted by a LWFW in the past, but 3 things hold me back:

1) The rattle at idle
2) Having to rev at idle
3) Warnings from Porsche to GT3 owners fitting a GT3RS LWFW saying it can cause engine problems *see link below

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/202994-new-clutch-required-6.html#post2967256

Video of LWFW rattle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=122q4vSlasI

Guys thanks for your comments

Alex

Next time we catch up you can listen to mine at idle. Not too bad.

The shorter gearing on the C2S & Turbo means that you don't bog down so much - no more than you do with the dual mass flywheel. Either way you have to give it a few revs to get going - single mass means it gets up to required rev level very easily.

Ian ran his car with the single mass flywheel for a while before I fitted mine.

TS - I had both a new clutch (Sachs) sprung and a single mass flywheel fitted at the same time. So previous writing was "shorthand".

Ian got me to compare weights of original flywheel and new one - its about 1/3 the weight. So you do loose torque but the engine revs so much more freely now you get into he "power band" so much more easily.


Run out to do some sport this evening and get petrol - Now I am getting used to the car again, there is no lack of torque it pics up strongly from 2.8k revs and is rabid at 4k revs first.

Looking forward to French roads later this month........

Faz - I am with you......



 
ORIGINAL: okellyt

TS - I had both a new clutch (Sachs) sprung and a single mass flywheel fitted at the same time. So previous writing was "shorthand".
.
Aha! Do you find the clutch sharper at the bite? My SMFW/sprung clutchplate car feels more like in or out with not much in between![;)] And......bigger bums and boots are perfectly agile.......in the right hands[;)]
 
Alan

Not hugely different on the bite than before but possible a little sharper on the clutch

But as an old friend once said to me tightness of fit is everything....................[:-]
 
Tom,

A couple of guys have suggested that I contact you as I am planning a similar upgrade to what you have previously done . I have a 997 C2S Gen 1. I am looking to increase the BHP to 380 or 400 if poss.
the car has only done 18000 (so the clutch & suspension are both in good nick). The car will be used at least 9 times a year on the track.

The current car has Sports Exhaust (switchable), happy to change it, but dont want to lose the switchable bit due to nosie limits on track days.

These are some suggestions I have recd :
Sports CAT +10bhp (or just remove the CAT altogether)
Designtek headers and exhaust system +25bhp
Revo remap +15bhp
Cold air induction kit +10bhp

probably want to spend £1k-£2k, but will spend more for more power.

Having never done this kind of upgrade before any advice you can give me is greatly appreciated.

I have an excellent Porche technician who can do the upgrades, but he has never upgraded a 997 before he mostly works on air cooled only, so isnt really able to give the kind of advice I need.

Hopefully you have time to read this & give me the benefit oif your experience.

Yhanks
Andy



 
Andy

Sorry I did not reply sooner - I have been away with work a lot, so not on the forum much.

I am going to ask you a key question

Do you want a car with lots of top end grunt but you migth loose some mid range and definatley loose lower end - Great for track work but embarassing on the road when less exotic stuff burns you off

Or do you want good conssitent in gear acceleration at the risk of sacraficing some possible gains at the top end - Fab for fast road work and none too shabby on the track albeit you wont have quite the same top end as the other option.

This is the basic compromise drivability versus outright power. The beast mark 1 was quicker on the road than a number of things dynoing higher peak power, The secret was the beast had a flat torque curve from 2.2k revs to about 6,5k revs looking like table mountain. It dropped off on the last 1000 revs so peak power was effected but average power through the rev range was much higher than some of the alternatives. So what I ended up with was stonking in gear acceleration and off the line was pretty good. What I gained less of was outright top end power on a narrower power band that you would want for ultimate track performance.

The next thing to consider is budget and the fact that Porsches are pretty balanced cars, when you make a big step in one thing, you need to balance the others (power, handling,breaks). frankly I would be inclined to spend money first on better brakes and driver training.

In terms of power I would go for improved driveability so a good cold air intake is the chepaest route. If your spending on a revo its good but i'd also look at customer remaps on a rolling road with the intake to eliminate flat spots when the car is under load - it improves drivability and optimsies on road perforamcne versus longevity of engine and other parts. First thing I would do though is repalce your brake fluid with road/race brake fluid and upgrade the pads to something like EBC Yellow stuff.

The cold air intake I used in the end was something developed between myself and Ian Heward who runs a specialist garage - it produced quite dramtic results in terms of imrpoved induction nosie of the car and power/drivability hikes. However by this stage I had a low backpressure 200 cell cat exhaust which optimsed the benefit of the intake.

Best upgrade I put on the beast was the full GT3 brake system, braids and all (up to an including checking the master cylinder to make sure its up to it - a C2S you'll need to change it) along side the larger callipers and disk I went road race fluid and EBC yellows. It meant I had far more consistent and far more potent braking so could brake later. I never felt underbraked again.

Bear in mind the more power, the better the brakes, the more wear and tear on clutch and suspension parts......

Hope this helps, give me a shout if you want some more specific info
 

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