The Old RMS issue

[Steve Brookes]

I know this is old ground but please bear with me for a moment.

The failure of the RMS is obviously a very big problem for the 986. I'm not sure about the extent of the problem on 911s and I guess the failure rate on the 987 is very low at the moment. Porsche are clearly aware of the problem so don't need to be told about it.

Does anyone know if we, as boxster owners, have ever tried to tackle Porsche about it? If not, by getting together can we do anything to persuade Porsche to cut us a deal for repairing the RMS?

Of course, if you have a Porsche warranty, you are covered. However, with the boxster coming up to 10 years old there are lots of them without warranties. New owners (of used cars) are inheriting what is in effect a design fault and are having to pay the same labour rates for repairing it that are charged for any other faults. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe RMS repair at an OPC is of the order of £600? Maybe by petitioning Porsche we could persuade them to set a reduced standard fee for repairing the RMS as a sign of goodwill.

For your further information, the reason I dragged this subject back to your attention is because of the results of a poll on RMS failure that I set up on boxa.net. Although, I am the first to admit that the poll may be flawed in both sample number (currently 121 votes) and that people who have experienced RMS failure are more likely to vote than those that haven't experienced it, the results are quite startling. 33.33% have had the RMS fail!![&:]

I look forward to your thoughts []

 

[NicD]

Steve,

I have done a large amount of work on this topic including a survey of Club Boxster owners and two of 996 owners. After substantial of lobbying Porsche GB and AG, we saw some small concessions in goodwill payments, and an extension of the extended warranty to cover RMS.

Please do a search of this forum using "RMS" and you will see the hundreds of posts

You can also ring me if you wish.

To be honest, the issue has died down, I assume owners live with it/problem not so re-occuring/widespread/expensive

Welcome over from Boxanet btw.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Thanks Nic.

I realised there would be a lot about the RMS on here so decided not to search on purpose! You answered my question straight away by confirming that you have already done a lot of work on the subject and made contact with Porsche (thank you for doing that for us). After doing a search, I see that the 'new RMS thread' indicates that your were sending a letter off on behalf of the club. Can you tell me, briefly, what was the response from them? Did they indicate a policy for RMS repair for anyone going to an OPC with a car that is out of warranty?

BTW, my car is RMS problem free so I've no ulterior motives here. But of course, I'm horrified by how many have been affected by the problem. And if I can help to do something about it I will be happy to do so.

Oh! and it was meeting other PCGB members on boxa.net that made up my mind that joining the official club would be a good move []

Link to "New RMS thread" for other new members below:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=76854&mpage=1&key=RMS

 

[NicD]

Steve,

we never received anything official to even acknowledge the problem.
Clearly Porsche have an RMS policy but it has not been made public so we can only impute the terms.
There is full support for cars under warranty, no matter where supplied.
Out of warranty, there is little help for cars not supplied from the UK. There is some goodwill assistance for cars one or two years out of warranty, generally not for older ones, though it is always worth approaching the OPC.

I advise owners to take out the extended warranty, or to use one of the reputable specialists to halve the cost. Of course, if you replace the clutch at the same time, then the cost is hardly increased for the RMS - only £13 in parts.

Remember, you can generaly wait and have RMS replaced when you want, it is not a dramatic issue at all.

Before you ask, I also lobbied hard for a longer factory warranty and maybe this will happen one day.

 

[tiskev]

Hi Nick,
Lost interest in this subject when I sold the Boxster and came off the register but
did you/Club approach the consumer associations here and BBC Watchdog ,did we try Brussels and even better do you know from the other Forums you go on if our Continental friends tried to get the EEC Cons. Asn's to chase up Porsche.?I am surprised that the Americans have not gone for them in a big way and got a result If it has all been dealt with before don't waste time on the answer Cheers Kevin

 

[NicD]

Kev,

nope, simply dealt with Porsche themselves. Two members said they were sueing Porsche in the courts but I never heard anything more about this.

 

[oliver]

I've heard that the latest design of replacement seal and the latest tool and procedure for fitting it has proved very successful.

 

[NicD]

Oliver,

that would be very good! As an issue it has died down, so I wonder if this is the reason.

 

[tiskev]

Thanks Nic,
May I suggest someone who knows chapter and verse on this subject contacts BBC
Watchdog initially,remember they were very good on the Rip off Britain campaign vis a vis
car pricing in the UK.Probably someone on the Forum knows the producer anyway.
What do the members think???

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Having read all the RMS threads as and when they were posted, IMO I think it would be a bad idea now to contact the press regarding this issue.

IMO the RMS really doesn't need to be replaced unless it is leaking badly, follow Nic Doczi's advice and replace it when you change your clutch. Anecdotal evidence of clutch contamination have not (AFAIK) materialised. Further, any causal link between the RMS failing and engine/gearbox failures are probably also coincidental.

It is clear no more progress will be made with Porsche, especially as momentum has dissipated.

Speaking to the press now would only lead to possible further downward pressure on Boxster prices, which is in no-ones interest.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Thanks Rodney for that extra information about the leak-clutch contamination possibilities. I've heard many say that you need to get the RMS done immediately to save your clutch. If this is not the case, as you say, then there is no need for people to panic.

I'd also agree that the 'media scandal' approach is not the way to go. I didn't resurrect the issue to suggest anybody does this. Nic immediately told me what I wanted to know, that is, formal representations have already been made to Porsche. It is most disappointing to hear that he did not get an official response though [>:].

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the issue has died down. More that owners have come to live with it and therefore Porsche have got away with it. But it's good to hear that some goodwill may be available and the newer seal may be less fragile. Of course if 987s and 997s manifest with the same problem then I am sure all hell will break out [].

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Of course if 987s and 997s manifest with the same problem then I am sure all hell will break out [].

Too late. RMS failures have ben reported on both.

 

[cherrington]

Was starting to feel smug as a year has passed with my 3.2 987 and nothing had gone wrong till oil drips started and failed RMS diagnosed. OPC appear shocked that new double lip seal is not the total solution for 987 and 997, faulty fit apparent likely cause , and of course OPC apologetic and quick to offer to fit new seal.
Suppose this makes me a proper Porsche owner , however what should I check when the car is returned eg connections properly made, does dropping the engine neccesitate oil drain and refill etc etc?
Thanks
John C

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: cherrington

Was starting to feel smug as a year has passed with my 3.2 987 and nothing had gone wrong till oil drips started and failed RMS diagnosed. OPC appear shocked that new double lip seal is not the total solution for 987 and 997, faulty fit apparent likely cause , and of course OPC apologetic and quick to offer to fit new seal.
Suppose this makes me a proper Porsche owner , however what should I check when the car is returned eg connections properly made, does dropping the engine neccesitate oil drain and refill etc etc?
Thanks
John C

I'd be impressed if you could spot that your engine hadn't been replaced correctly as it's almost impossible to see anything with it in situ without taking the covers off. Even then the top view is pretty unremarkable. I haven't been bored enough yet to open the front one yet. [&:]

They should be able to whip the engine out without draining the oil but I'd imagine the coolant will have to go.