The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project

[944 man]

Im going to post this here too, as many members don't use both forums: How will you get the twin scroll turbo to work Robert? TS turbochargers are great, but theyre very difficult to get to work properly and Id always regarded them as something which needs manufacturer level engineering to succeed.

 

[T3rra]

As it's kkk turbo will you be able to stick with the stock turbo / engine mount. This was nearly a route I went with mine however I didn't want to spend money on somewhat off a risky outcome when paying other side to do the fab work. Will you be using used forged rods? Are you having anything done to them? 48mm valves? N/a head? hope it all works out

 

[944Turbo]

Interesting project - thanks for sharing!

 

[R/E 951]

Hello all,
As the title suggests I though you might be interested in my project.
I am working on a black 1989 M030 turbo with 148k on the clock.
It was a very original car with not major work carried out on it.
When I started work on the car, it had a Promax level 2 tuning kit an I'd estimate around 270hp.

The car had been sitting for around 3 years before the project started meaning there were a fair list of things to do before a MOT could be carried out.
I then decided the best base for this project was a proper engine management system and after some research looking at standalone units it was obvious that Augtronic was by far the quickest and easiest solution and in my opinion would be hard to improve on.

So after some prep and a trip to Gloucestershire I had the platform for a very quick car.

From the start it is important to understand this project is to create a Porsche 944 turbo that is brought up to current levels of technology, performance and is a focused fast road car.

After much time, thought and calculation I have settled with the EFR 7064 in 1.05a/r form.
Through my calculations I will be able to make 450+hp with this turbo.
I plan to make this at 6800rpm using 1.45bar following a long scheme of work.
For now I wont be pushing the car as I'm saving up for some rods and head work.

Some images of the turbo:

As you can see the turbo isn't the finest thing a Porsche 944 has ever seen but so far all is going to plan as far a fitment is concerned and the first test mount should be on the car by the weekend. Fabrication of the X-over and exhaust will follow.

I have also modified my intercooler but it will be upgraded to something much larger in time.

Some of the planned engine improvements to follow include:
Forged rods
48mm intake valve
Mild porting
ITB intake manifold
Direct port water injection
Modern intercooler
Intercooler spray bar
and much more

These will be put off for sometime due to chassis improvements and also some interior improvements.
Chassis wise I'm going for 968 M030 ARBs, Powerflex bushes all round, 968 caster blocks, 220lb front springs and I'm not sure what to do at the rear.
With dampers I'm split between AST 5100 or KW

I have recently fitted some new wheels and am quite pleased with the look and they drive lovely.

A few of the Interior improvements planned are:
Auto wipers
Auto headlight with coming home delay when car is turned off.

Hope you all find this interesting

Robert

 

[Frenchy]

I prefer your old wheels to be honest, club sport wheels are excellent, please refit the "Porsche" script below the back lights as the car looks bare [] Good luck with the project.

 

[TTM]

Twin scrolll should be a piece of cake on a RHD car. Interested on the ITB design.

 

[GPF]

Sounds like a great project, Robert - looking forward to regular updates!

 

[R/E 951]

Update 1 First off thanks for the interest and good luck for my project. I havent made as much progress as I'd hoped for a number of reasons but I'll tell you what I have done. So I have had my first test mount system made up and am very pleased with the result as it doesn't look like it needs to much adjusting.

As you can see there is a nice bit of room for my down pipe and also I have been able to keep the original dipstick. The mount system I've used is basically an adapter that also raises the turbo up 30mm. And also moves the turbo away from the engine block. It also makes the transition from the original pedestal hole centres and the new Borg Warner holes. The Borg Warner turbo oil drain flange it the same as the K26/8 oil feed. I have been held up due to the tubing size I want to use for my X-over been hard to get hold of however I will have it next week so hope to have the X-over and maybe waste gates finished next week end. I have had a stainless flange made up to bolt upto the headers

This utilises the original crush rings however they are around £25 each so I may have my own made up. For those who were wondering about my waste gating I will be using two Tial MVS waste gates due to there compact size and ease of installation.

The exhaust will be 3" from the turbo back with one stainless Jetex back box. The waste gates will have a separate discharge point. Robert

 

[R/E 951]

ORIGINAL: 944 man Im going to post this here too, as many members don't use both forums: How will you get the twin scroll turbo to work Robert? TS turbochargers are great, but theyre very difficult to get to work properly and Id always regarded them as something which needs manufacturer level engineering to succeed.

Due to the fact the headers on the 944 are already paired 1+4 and 2+3 it shouldn't be to hard at all. Also due to the fact the two x-over tubes are smaller than OEM they wont be too big a challenge to fit. Due to me using to smaller wastegates they will be able to tee into the X-over where it starts at the bottom at the headers.

 

[R/E 951]

ORIGINAL: T3rra As it's kkk turbo will you be able to stick with the stock turbo / engine mount. This was nearly a route I went with mine however I didn't want to spend money on somewhat off a risky outcome when paying other side to do the fab work. Will you be using used forged rods? Are you having anything done to them? 48mm valves? N/a head? hope it all works out

T3rra, Sadly the turbo isn't a direct fit and due to the location of the original mount there wouldn't be sufficient room for the turbo anyway. I won't be using forged rods initially and will only be running around 350hp on a good road tune. When I do put in rods I will us Carrillo's. The 48mm intake valve I will be putting into a standard 951 head. I will also have some porting done on the intake side that will match my new Manifold.

 

[R/E 951]

ORIGINAL: TTM Twin scrolll should be a piece of cake on a RHD car. Interested on the ITB design.

TTM, Yes twin scroll on my car shouldn't be too hard. The ITB intake manifold I am planning on doing as a completely separate project following my turbo install. It will use four Jenvey SFS ITB's probably in 50mm form. I have only done some rough CAD drawings so far when ever I get them to a more definite stage I'll post up some PDF drawings of my design.

 

[TTM]

I looked into Jenvey ITBs some time ago but ignored they made a 50mm unit? Looks like the EFR turbo fits straight onto the original mount without any modification? I tried to do some calculations about the size of the tubes replacing the single cross over pipe and was thinking that using the same diameter as exhaust manifold tubes should be good enough...? Would be interested in such a steel flange, in case you can have some made. Looking good so far, please keep us informed.

 

[T3rra]

Looks like it's all falling in to place. What boost will you need to run to make 350?

 

[R/E 951]

Update 2 Small update as yesterday I managed to make some more progress mainly on the intake. I have had to move the position of the original throttle body due to it obstructing the turbos location.

I know this wont do anything for throttle response but its only a short term solution until I make my ITB manifold. I have also modified the original intercooler to enable it to flow a lot more air. Although the intercooler isn't very efficient I think with the help of water injection and an intercooler spray bar it will be good enough for my project to begin with. In time I think I will have to fit a bigger more efficient intercooler.

One of the other areas of the car I have been improving is the oiling system, I have done away with the old oil cooler as it really was past its best and have fitted a larger cooler in front of the rad. I will post up more pictures when I get the system finished as it should be rather nice.

Hope this is of interest Robert

 

[R/E 951]

ORIGINAL: TTM I looked into Jenvey ITBs some time ago but ignored they made a 50mm unit? Looks like the EFR turbo fits straight onto the original mount without any modification? I tried to do some calculations about the size of the tubes replacing the single cross over pipe and was thinking that using the same diameter as exhaust manifold tubes should be good enough...? Would be interested in such a steel flange, in case you can have some made. Looking good so far, please keep us informed.

TTM, This is a link to the ITB's I was referring to, They are very compact and I think would be ideal for the application. [link]http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/individual-throttle-bodies/sfs-short-30mm-individual-body/jenvey-dynamics/sfs-40-50mm-body-0-inj-sfsxx-0-0[/link] I personally wouldn't go for the throttle bodies with injector ports as I think the injectors would be to far from the valve for a nice idle. Although 50mm may seem big I have been in contact with some one who is using 50mm barrel throttle bodies and is getting VE numbers over 100% between 4500 and 7000RPM on a large range of engine sizes. This setup has also been used on a 3.2ltr 8v that produced over 700hp and doesn't seem to hits the famous 6000rpm barrier I have read so much about. I believe the intake is a big restriction at higher revs and the 8v head gets the blame. I can't remember what the sizes of the header tubes are but my x-over will be similar size to the outlet ports from the header flanges. I will post the full specification of the x-over when its finished. All the engineering work I am having done it drawn on CAD making it easily repeatable. If you'd like a flange its no problem and you can have you own choice of flange ID if you wish. If you pm me after I get my turbo finished we can sort it. Robert

 

[T3rra]

Good stuff. Is that 3" or 4" air intake? Looks big next to turbo neck. Ic looks good. Been thinking about something for mine. Currently got the 1 end tank which should give 250 cfm. Broodfoot offer 500 hp solution that fits in factory space. Maybe you can get a garret core to work?

 

[R/E 951]

Update 3 So I'm finally starting to make some progress on the interesting stuff. I have fabricated my down pipe and have nearly got my x-over fabricated. I am using 1 3/4 SS tube for the cross over which translates for a 44.5mm OD and a 41.5mm ID. I think this should result in a reasonably low boost threshold but shouldn't limit the top end. When fabricating I start by using masking tape for joints as this make adjustments easy and mean you don't have to keep braking tacks.

I am pleased with how much room I ended up having for the DP as I didn't have to use any small radius bends or start pie cutting my own bends.

On my v bands when I was test fitting I noticed that they don't always self centre very well. To prevent this from being a problem I have offset the pipe break and the v band flanges.

I also decided that where the castor mount is mounted could do with a trim to give my DP a little more room.

It isn't the easiest place to access so not the prettiest TIG weld later It was capped with a stainless plate.

I have also been making progress with the X-over. It can be quite awkward trying to get stuff fitting nice when the engines in the car and you feel like you spend ages just studying the best way to fabricate.

As you can see I'm "getting there" and the next update will hopefully include some numbers on the performance of this turbo. Robert

 

[R/E 951]

ORIGINAL: T3rra Good stuff. Is that 3" or 4" air intake? Looks big next to turbo neck. Ic looks good. Been thinking about something for mine. Currently got the 1 end tank which should give 250 cfm. Broodfoot offer 500 hp solution that fits in factory space. Maybe you can get a garret core to work?

The turbo inlet is 3.5" and I've put a 4" reducer on it. If you have any images of your air filter (lamp shade) I'd be interested in them. I havent had time to complete my next intercooler design but I think I will be able to fit two 400hp garrett cores behind each other. I also want to experiment a relatively new idea that is used on Audi b5 S4's and RS4's SMIC's where they knife edge the leading edge of the intercooler. This results in a higher velocity of air through the intercooler and also the density of the air flowing through is increased. This should result in a more efficient intercooler. Also allows for opening up some vents to make the intercooler more efficient as low speed with out reducing high speed performance.

 

[T3rra]

Great stuff. Send me your email and r send you over the pics

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: R/E 951 I am using 1 3/4 SS tube for the cross over which translates for a 44.5mm OD and a 41.5mm ID. I think this should result in a reasonably low boost threshold but shouldn't limit the top end.

When I look at most twin scroll designs, the turbo is placed as close as possible to the cylinder head, which suggests to me we want the smallest possible piping volume between exhaust manifolds and the turbine inlet to minimise lag. From that perspective I don't really understand how "too small" pipes could be any restrictive. What am I missing?