Think I have a problem

[cytefx]

Hi All

Got the car out of the garage this morning (993 450bhp import 1998) and when I started it there was the normal white smoke behind (does it for a minute or two until its warmed, but noticed the passenger side exhaust was throwing out loads of white smoke (when I put my hand over it it was just like oil) I left it idling for a minute, but it did not stop, having read on the forums it looks like I have a issue with oil going into the turbos (or something like that) and the common solution is to change the filter, the car has not really been used since the last oil change (8 months ago) could this be just as simple as giving the car an oil change and cleaning up the oil thats around the turbo?

I also noticed a patch of oil on the floor (the first time ever that anything has dropped on the floor from it) Is there any diy guides to doing the filter change and oil swap, or is it a case of using the Streater (or whatever it is) book.

thanks in advance

 

[John Maddox]

You need to use it more !! (But you may be working away etc which can be difficult) Engines do attract internal condensation if they are not used frequently and driven until fully hot. The oil picks up this condensate and it slowly evaporates and exits the exhaust as steam and can feel a bit oily. I've noticed my right exhaust tends to do this for a short time if left unused for a couple of weeks or so.

As a precaution an oil change seems sensible - I did my Carrera 2 yesterday. Good diy on Pcar - link attached. Relatively straightforward but time consuming. There is an extra Turbo bit of instruction at the end of the procedure.

http://p-car.com/diy/changeoil/

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

 

[cytefx]

Cheers, yep will have to do a change, have been racing this year so time in the turbo has been basically non existent, and the race car has been getting all my attention.

Although I thought that first, there is a definite lot of oil coming out of the exhaust (looking from the rear left hand turbo has oil over it, and there is oil in the exhaust pipe) so I am thinking that I have suffered from the wrong filter being put on and oil going back into the turbo, and seeping past the seals and then dripping on the floor (had no issues before the last oil change)

 

[Gordon Attar]

There's an awful lot of oil in those engines and it can be sitting in all sorts of nookes and crannies, suggest a longer warming up session with some revving or ideally a modest drive to clear out the engine. If after the drive you are not happy, I see you are in Berkshire, so just pop over to Northways nr Reading

You will find with most air cooled Porsches if you leave them lying around for 8 months the odd 12 year old seal gets a bit dry and good old Mobil 0W/40 will find its way out. You also have the valve guide cover leak issue that can surface as well, which Northways will do in about 4/5 hours.

Dont forget the less you drive them the more issues you seem to have.

 

[cytefx]

thanks Gordan. my main worry was damaging the engine as there was quite a bit of oil kicked out from the exhaust pipe (only on the one side), should i be worries about this?

 

[Gordon Attar]

With my 993TT versus the 964 there was always a lot more white condensation smoke on start up(especially on a cold day)and it used tostarting spitting water onto the concrete floor in my garage after a little while for upto 20 seconds when I warmed it up, when I wasnt using it as I tended to start it up at least once a fortnight, half the time just to listen to the lovely noise it made (had fabspeed muffler bypasses)

I like you, would be worried by any odd happenings but from past experience i.e from my 964 you can get oil seeping into the wrong areas for a number of reasons. I parked mine on a slope one day and was greated with 20 seconds of great cloud's of oily smoke when it started! then it didnt happen again, my original thought was o sh*t the engines going! but communicating with the 964 sites lead to list of other people that had similar experiences and most often it was down to overfilling through lack of knowledge and everyone forgets oil expands under excessive heat, see below.

Sorry forgot one other very common issue I should have mentioned - another very common problem is overfilling with oil afetr a service causing the smoking issue. This is usually when an inexperienced mechanic does an oil change, because there is always some residual oil sitting around these air cooled engines( i.e in the host of pipes, other side of the oil thermostat etc), its impossible to get it all out at a oil change, theres always a litre or two left. The normal method is to stick I think 5/6 litres into start with (i.e. about 3 quarters of requirement) and then have the engine idling for a while to get the engine warm, then check the level, then you top up the oil up to the required level. If you cold fill and input the amount straight in from the manual its a guaranteed overfill situation. Please bear in mind this can happen at an OPC if the mechanic isnt used to air cooled cars.

The air filter issue is usually a US one or when someone damages the filter when screwing it back on!

Suggested ways forward, if you are really worried get it transported to Northways, or at least ring them up and talk to Paul or Ray, say I suggested it.

Check the oil level, if its over full thats the problem, if its not much take the car out and burn it off as there is no easy way of getting a little bit out.

Alternatively, and using your racing experience
When you originall started the car after the first few seconds of clatter and ignoring the usual snap cracle and pop noises, did you hear any other scary noises?? If you didnt and are comfortable doing this...... then if it was mine I would start it up again and let it idle and give it a few gentle blips until it gets warm, then check the oil level again, incase its overfilled, hopefully the smoke has stopped if it hasnt or your uncomfortable with any strange noises etc get it to your nearest specialist/Northways for them to check it over.
If the smoke has dissappeared go for a blast to clear out the cobwebs and to lubrcate the engine and seals and when you are not using it start it up every week or two until its warm.

Good luck, let us know if it disappears

 

[cytefx]

Hi

thanks for the advice, spoke to Northways this morning, and the first question was when was the last oil change, they were very nice on the phone and suggested that I go on a drive (but dont look behind) or just get it started and up to temp, to clean it out then go for a drive.

just got to weight for the neighbors to be out then start her up

When it was started there was no strange noises, just a load of smoke, normally it gives a little for 10-15 secs but one side just kept on going, I know i need to warm it up to get the oil reading, but just did not want to risk running it with the smoke.

Northways suspect that my small filter is either on too tight, or just a duff one, and have offered to slip me in when I can make it over there to swap it over, that I thought was a very nice offer.

Will keep you informed (may even get video of it started if I remember to take it when I start her up)

J

 

[Gordon Attar]

Sounds like you spoke to Paul, they look after a lot of 993TT's so know there stuff. Also the last Porsche Ray Northway properly owned (as opposed to stock) was a 993TT until a 86 year old driver kindly wrote it of by driving into the rear qtr.

 

[Porker993]

Gordon, don't tell me you sold your 993TT !

Sorry to hear that. Hope you get another one soon.

(We met at the Cotswold rally a few years ago)

Best wishes

Mark

 

[Gordon Attar]

Hi Mark

Sadly yes, I did what I promised myself I would never do.

Unfortunately took the option on a 3 year assignment in sunny Oman, to get away from the UK.

Anyway I thought if I get a good price for the car, I wouldnt have to incur 3 years storage costs and I would stick the money in the bank and accrue the interest and buy one on my return and then the stock market went t%ts up. If I didnt get a decent price I was going to bring it with me and within a week someone from Germany promptly fly's over pays the £35k /45k Euro I was asking which was a £6k profit and off she went.

Now I'm Porsche'less moneys not growing as fast as the inflation on the 993TT prices and I'm feeling sorry for myself and hoping that in 2 years I will be able to still sneak into one. On the plus side I might be able to get 2*996TT for the same price or perhaps even a 997TT as they are now under £60k.

PS If this was still the Turbo page I would start ducking............................

 

[dparslow]

ORIGINAL: cytefx

thanks Gordan. my main worry was damaging the engine as there was quite a bit of oil kicked out from the exhaust pipe (only on the one side), should i be worries about this?

Mine did exactly the same as this when I hadn`t used it for about 5 months over the winter, smoking out of the o/s tailpipe and a few drops of oil under the n/s turbo. I removed all the pipes connected to the turbo`s and wiped the oil out of them then took it for a good run. What happens is you get some oil seepage through the turbo bearings/seals into the exhaust and inlet pipes when the car is stood for long periods. Some of this is due to the fact you have most of the oil in the tank which is above the height of the turbos and the forces of gravity and time cause the oil to seep through the seals.

There was no play in the turbo spindles, so no bearing wear as such but the seals may have lost some of their sealing properties over their 12 year life. Over the summer months and more frequent use there has not been a problem. I was aware of the over filling issue and only have the oil level 3/4 of the way up the twisted bit of the dipstick when the engine is really hot.

 

[cytefx]

OK, little update for you guys, took the car to Northways to have the engine filter changed (to see if this would stop it leaking out, as it looked like it was going through the turbos)

But when the undershields were removed you could see immediately what the issue really was, the lower cover has oil seeping from it, so this was the source for the oil on the floor (the white smoke has not appeared again, since the first time) also the oil level was not registering the minimum, so Ray flipped off the filter, put a new one on, and chucked in some oil, and jobs a good one at present.

Next on the list now is to have the lower cover replaced, and at the same time fit one of them snazzy non return valves that people have in the later cars.

Top marks to Northways, they fitted me in at quite short notice, and I have no complaints about there service.

J

 

[Porker993]

Glad to hear it was nothing worse. On the normally aspirated 993 it's around £150 a side to have it fixed as far as I recall, so not too expensive. Not sure what accessibility is like in the TT ...

The problem is caused by the rubber cam cover seals perishing. Why Porsche used rubber in such a location is beyond me. Still, it's nice to be able to moan about such a trivial issue - some of our 911 brethren are not so lucky ....

 

[Gordon Attar]

Glad its sorted, presumably he has quoted 2 to 3 hours per side for the leaking cam cover(s).

Service at Northways is always good his prices are excellent only shame is he needs to make the place a bit more presentable its still very much back to the days when the Rothman Porches were kept/worked on their.

 

[dparslow]

Here is a pic of the turbo oil feed pipes with the non return valves as fitted to the 996tt.

I have not had time to fit them as yet, but will post some pics when they are fitted before I refit the rear silencers and bumper.

 

[cytefx]

ORIGINAL: Gordon Attar

Glad its sorted, presumably he has quoted 2 to 3 hours per side for the leaking cam cover(s).

Service at Northways is always good his prices are excellent only shame is he needs to make the place a bit more presentable its still very much back to the days when the Rothman Porches were kept/worked on their.

Did not get a quote, will get them done in the new year, very pleased with service, and he did advise just doing the one side, as if you do the one thats not leaking, then it could in future cause a problem (and if its not broke, dont fix it etc)