timing belt question and flywheel locking tool.

[dirtydirtyharry]

I've realised that the timingbelt on my 86 944 needs doing. I'm not confident of doing it myself so I've asked a decent local garage if they would be happy doing it. He has never done a 944 before so I've pointed him in the direction of Clark's garage etc and explained that a 944 timing belt and balance belt replacement is meant to be a bit of a pain in the arse. He had a look on the internet etc last night and has got back to me to say he obviously doesn't have a flywheel locking tool for a 944.

Any ideas where we can get one quite cheap?

Thanks

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Any ideas where we can get one quite cheap

Hi Neil,

You can't get them cheap, they cost what they cost! From memory they're about £50, usual suppliers.

The tensioning tool is a lot more. The Club has two available free to members. Remember you need to check the tension again after 1000 miles or so.

 

[DC911SC]

If you know anyone that does engineering there are a few plans online to make them.

At least this chap is honest I suppose and has admited he's not done one, got to be better than doing it yourself - if you know what I mean.

As mentioned on here before make sure a flywheel lock is used, putting it in gear does not provide a sufficiently strong enough lock to get the tension required on the crankshaft bolt - I would know!!

I'm not sure what area you are in but maybe someone can recommend a garage with the tool and experience.........

 

[colin944]

I bought one from Porsche I think it was around £20 ish.As for tension tool you can buy a version of one from http://arnnworx.com/tensioningbelts.htm lots of good info on this site. You can also get the special spanners from here as well. I did my own belts on my S2 and i would have no hesitation in doing them again. There are a lot of scare stories thrown around about belts on these cars but if you take your time and get the settings right then it is not a difficult job to do.

Also watch this guy to see how it's done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1P0n1DXMto

 

[ChasR]

This is the wrong advice to be giving out I admit, but allegedly you do not always need the flywheel lock, as some deem it unnecessary to remove the crankshaft pulley.

I would also look for a the specialist to do the job. The subject of belt tension has been much debated, although most agreed that the belt should be rechecked after 1500 miles. Where in the country are you?

 

[dirtydirtyharry]

Cheers for the replies. Im up in the North east. The bloke at the garage I know has always been fantastic and regularly helps out when needed. Its just that he isnt familiar with 944's (How many are!?)

He got back to me to say he cant source the flywheel lock, tensioning tool or a waterpump (assuming this should be done at the same time as the timing belt and balance belt?) He was planning to just rely on the "twisting the timing belt between your fingers" technique to etablish if the belt was the right tension.

He is a cracking mechanic (who would do it for a good price) but im now not sure whether to find a specialised garage or not.

I called REDLINE racing in Thornaby who could do it and have the right equipment but it would end up being quite a costly job!

Hmmmmm [&:]

 

[DC911SC]

I wouldn't give up on him yet, however if you are planning on doing the waterpump you will def need the lock to get the crankshaft bolt off / on (in my opinion). I'm sure there will be plenty on this but the finger twist is a well used method, I hear of more belts snapping because they have not been replaced than those that have been poorly tensioned.

I've not tried leaving the crank pulley on but if there is enough give by removing the tensioners then can't see why that wouldn't work, again just the issue with timing and tdc moving.

I've fitted the Zims (usa) rebuilt Porsche pump and very happy with it, if your not in a big hurry (take about 10 days to arrive) then they do a good kit of belts, pump and rollers / tensioners. I saved a lot doing it this way. Glad I did it as the pump bearings were shot - sound terrible when you spin the impeller.

Zims -

http://www.allzim.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=2892

 

[pauljmcnulty]

He got back to me to say he cant source the flywheel lock, tensioning tool or a waterpump (assuming this should be done at the same time as the timing belt and balance belt?) He was planning to just rely on the "twisting the timing belt between your fingers" technique to etablish if the belt was the right tension.

Easy to get, places like Type 911 stock them. Given that the tensioning tool is free to borrow for members it's not worth relying on one person's "feeling", I guess. Water pumps were coming in cheaper from Germany recently.

I think there are plenty of jobs where it's just as easy to use any local mechanic you trust. Others work out cheaper, or better value, at a specialist, like a clutch. Whilst a 944 is just a car, there are jobs where knowing them inside out helps. Personally, I'd put belts in this category: a specialist will know exactly what needs changing and what could wait until next time, know where to source everything, and give you the peace of mind that it's been done right.

 

[DC911SC]

yes I agree with Paul I forgot but when mine was just done the waterpump pump bolts had seized badly and the garage had a jig to drill them out, otherwise that would have been a lot of man hours hacking away!

I researched the German pump and I wasn't so sure about the quality, I went for the Zims one in the end as a lots of the americans have put plenty of miles on them without issue and the bearings and seal have been done well.

 

[tref]

I agree entirely with Paul... I do my own belts, and indeed, have just "booked" to borrow one of the clubs tools for the first week next month - two cars to look at, one a belt change the other just the 100k mile check, neither of them mine - I consider it what the club is about... but... and this is where otherwise the specialist knowledge comes in, I have done more belt changes on a 944 than I care to remember, and I would still value the knowledge of a specialist, a second opinion, on so many of the "while you are in there" jobs.

The water pump has been mentioned, but oil seals, top hats, the tensioners and other pulleys, oil pump drive if the crankshaft pulley is coming off, even the woodruff key. If it is money no object, sure, replace everything, but if you are on a budget you really don't want to replace everything if it doesn't need it, because it really does get expensive... the trouble is, at what point is the wear on any of these components excessive? If it is someone that hasn't done one before, sorry but they have no chance of knowing... the only way you learn this is to see enough cars that you get to see one where it is obvious what the problem is, and the point at which it just fails as a result, for each component... That is a lot of engines you have to see... 944 engines, not any old Ford/Vauxhall/Fiat/Insert your favourite here.

I have a friend who has just had an ignition switch changed on a VW golf. An easy job. Apparently... except the garage that did it didn't know the cars, and now he has a broken steering column surround, and has been told it took a lot longer than expected, and he is expecting a big bill... worse, he knows a specialist, but thought for a simple job, another garage would be fine...

If you are doing the belts yourself, borrowing the club tool costs, what? £10-20? And people will nod sagely that you have done the job right, and it is a well looked after car, worth having. If I read on here someone has used the "1/4 turn twist method", I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

 

[colin944]

I bought a pump from Rose Passion as my car id an S2 and the pump is not the same as a 2.5 lt car. They gave a fantastic service and delivered the pump within a couple of days. I bought the belts and rollers etc from Porsche.

 

[dirtydirtyharry]

I really appreciate the replies fellas. I value the opinions.

The local mechanic has been quite honest and I think he is a little bit wary about doing the job anyway now (I think he can see that Im a bit anal about the 944!) and he would obviously not want to do anything wrong.

I will call Redline Racing in the next few days and get it booked in. They want it left overnight, presumably so they can inspect it all and decide what parts need replacing. As someone above rightly said, people who know the cars best will have a better idea what needs replacing and what doesn't.
They did a good job on my old 944 when I needed a couple of bits doing.

Thanks again for the advice. []

Its worth me spending the extra and getting it done properly (and having the peace of mind) plus after the stupid amount of time I spent sorting out the water leaks the last thing I need is it getting scrapped because the engine blows up []

 

[colin944]

ORIGINAL: dirtydirtyharry

I really appreciate the replies fellas. I value the opinions.

The local mechanic has been quite honest and I think he is a little bit wary about doing the job anyway now (I think he can see that Im a bit anal about the 944!) and he would obviously not want to do anything wrong.

I will call Redline Racing in the next few days and get it booked in. They want it left overnight, presumably so they can inspect it all and decide what parts need replacing. As someone above rightly said, people who know the cars best will have a better idea what needs replacing and what doesn't.
They did a good job on my old 944 when I needed a couple of bits doing.

Thanks again for the advice. []

Its worth me spending the extra and getting it done properly (and having the peace of mind) plus after the stupid amount of time I spent sorting out the water leaks the last thing I need is it getting scrapped because the engine blows up []

Totally agree if your even in the slightest bit unsure get an expert to do it. It's easy for me to say it's easy as I have done countless timing belts on loads of different cars and I am not scared to get stuck into it.