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Tiptronic Cup cars

RSGulp

PCGB Member
Member
I've just been reading the 964RS and Cup section of "Excellence Was Expected" ...the bit about Tiptronic Cup cars

Hacki, is the later part of this about your Tip Cup being driven at the 'Ring by Walter Röhrl?...

Excellence Was Expected. Volume 3. Page 1141

"¦With the Cup series promoting the new Carrera 2, could this be a way to advertise the Tiptronic? The first attempt to answer this question was made by Roland Kussmaul with two experimental Carrera 2s, both weight-reduced but with the Tiptronic car carrying a 66-pound penalty. Neither car had a limited-slip differential, because this was not feasible with the Tiptronic. In January 1990 Kussmaul took the two cars to Vallelunga and Bari in Italy where the weather would allow him to make a comparison"¦

"¦These tests were so promising that one of the factory's own Cup cars was Tiptronic-equipped. Kussmaul was again chauffeur for a comparative test of the North Loop of the Nürburgring on June 5, 1990. He covered 24 laps of the circuit, some 300 miles, with no mechanical problems. In a fastest lap times at just under 8 minutes, 13 seconds the difference in time was only 0.15 second, in favor of the manual shift"¦

"¦After his January test in Italy, Roland Kussmaul counselled as follows: "If a VIP car is to be entered with Tiptronic, only good drivers should be used for the first races so that through their good results, drivers of average skill will choose the Tiptronic option." This advice could not have been better followed than by the engagement of Walter Rohrl to take the wheel of the automatic car for a four-lap race on the "˜Ring on June 16. If anyone could get the best from the Tip Carrera it was the experienced Röhrl.

On the day, Walter had only one problem. Roland Kussmaul had told him that the transmission could stand three or four sudden starts made by revving the engine to 6,000 in neutral and moving the lever into "D". Since only one start was necessary, he suggested that Röhrl give it a try. The German, however, was too sensitive to his machinery to treat it with such brutality and was unable to make up the many places he lost at the start. Nor was the lack of limited-slip differential a help to Röhrl. "Only thanks to his smooth driving style on the North Loop," Jost Capito reported from the "˜Ring, "was the handicap of a missing limited-slip differential of no consequence to Mr. Röhrl."
 
It is the same Richard -I have video of it.

You will see it (and Hacki!) at Spa. Never know your luck, you may even get a ride in it!![:)]
 

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

They made several "Basics" 964RS in tiptronic only RHD for the Australian Market.
Des

Can you please give me some source to support this, or is it just a wind up for me! Having spoken to 3 people who worked for the official Porsche importer at the time, including the sales director, I was under the impression that they didn't bring in any 964RS's, in an form. In the 2 years + I have been here, I have followed up every lead I can and have identified the grand total of 5 964RS's over here. The 4 other cars seem to be made up of 2 from NZ, 1 from HK and 1 other supposedly from the UK (although I haven't had proper conformation of this). All are "basics". This doesn't inlude the 3.8 "RSR's"

Any info to help establish the full RS history over here would be welcomed.
 
That´s my car, yes.

Interesting to hear about the lack of LSD. I always felt it hasn´t got one, but on the other hand traction was always so good and that little extra understeer when accelerating out of slow corners gave me the feeling of a LSD effect. A friend of mine -experienced racing driver- said that there must be something like LSD. Maybe he was fooled like myself by the good traction (some 70 extra pounds in the rear).

The car was published in last years new book "Porsche Raritäten" by Tobias Aichele.

Thanks for info Rich!


Hacki

P. S.: You have / will get mail.
 
Simon, not a wind up ........ they were converted from a C2 Tip to M002 Spec at the factory but with C2 Chassis numbers, but came with a certificate authenticating the conversion. This was a special request by several OPC Dealers at the time.
 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Simon, not a wind up ........ they were converted from a C2 Tip to M002 Spec at the factory but with C2 Chassis numbers, but came with a certificate authenticating the conversion. This was a special request by several OPC Dealers at the time.

But, you will be bonkers to pay a premium for a tiptronic [:D]

Harry
 
If rareity is important then sure you may want to pay a premium. I am a die-hard manual person even if were to buy a modern Ferrari I will buy a manual and not the F-1, unless you have no option e.g. Stradale, Scuderia - so to me a tiptronic is not worth the premium just like the C2 with tiptronic.

Harry
 
Hi ,

I just to wanted to chip in here . I'm a petrol head and have in the passed raced cars etc ..but my C2 is tiptronic is a fantastic car and I can see why there is only a 0.15sec diff on the Ring with Tip and non Tip cars ...its as fast ..ignor the spec ..its fast as any C2 non tip !!!

When I took my car to Brand Hatch track day is was far faster than the non Tip cars ...as i didn't have to change gear etc etc, the car stepped up to one of its 4-5 Tip maps..learn't what I was doing in revs and changed gear as needed at a far higher rev range than on the road.

I purposely brought a Tip due to the miles I do, and the less stress the car will have seen in its past. As you can never over rev a Tip engine or miss a gear as the Gearbox ECU protects it ..... Even in manual mode. You can try to rev the nuts of it up or down ...you wont be able to. A lot of 964 engines are damaged by over reving in the past.

But it will still race around a track ....I had a two wheel drift in a Tip car on Druids as I went round ...I have the photos to prove it ....

All personal obinions, and why do more 997's sell with Tip than non Tip ..the modern world perhaps ?
 
The Australian 964RSBasic Tiptronic Cars were all model year 94' ... and were an obvious after thought ... factory had a few cars to shift with the intro of the 993... and a few M002 Options left over in the parts bin. Apparently a lot of M002 bits ended up in Aussie ... on speedsters, targa and cab .. engines gearbox suspension etc ... whstever the parts bin had ... but all to Australia were they would noy be noticed!
 
ORIGINAL: iangray100

Hi ,

I just to wanted to chip in here . I'm a petrol head and have in the passed raced cars etc ..but my C2 is tiptronic is a fantastic car and I can see why there is only a 0.15sec diff on the Ring with Tip and non Tip cars ...its as fast ..ignor the spec ..its fast as any C2 non tip !!!

When I took my car to Brand Hatch track day is was far faster than the non Tip cars ...as i didn't have to change gear etc etc, the car stepped up to one of its 4-5 Tip maps..learn't what I was doing in revs and changed gear as needed at a far higher rev range than on the road.

I purposely brought a Tip due to the miles I do, and the less stress the car will have seen in its past. As you can never over rev a Tip engine or miss a gear as the Gearbox ECU protects it ..... Even in manual mode. You can try to rev the nuts of it up or down ...you wont be able to. A lot of 964 engines are damaged by over reving in the past.

But it will still race around a track ....I had a two wheel drift in a Tip car on Druids as I went round ...I have the photos to prove it ....

All personal obinions, and why do more 997's sell with Tip than non Tip ..the modern world perhaps ?

It's not about the timed lap or how fast you can shift, it is just the experience of the manual cannot be repliacted by the automatic transmissions. Clearly F-1 will shift quicker than any human being but that is not the point. I don't hammer home the gears and the experience derived from shifting manual transmission to me is more important for a weekend toy. I have an auto box in my Accord - no it's not a Porsche or a Ferrari but something is missing when I drive the Accord even if the auto is a nice box. More Ferrari's are sold with F-1 and if you say so the 997 - it is the modern world but I still like to do it myself.

Harry
 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Simon, not a wind up ........ they were converted from a C2 Tip to M002 Spec at the factory but with C2 Chassis numbers, but came with a certificate authenticating the conversion. This was a special request by several OPC Dealers at the time.

Des, have you any more info on this (picture of certificate, specs etc). Were these really euro RS replicas or rhd RS America's? If MH 94 this sounds more likely. Most of this sort of thing gets documented somewhere (eg the Andial converted cup cars).
This takes us back to 'what makes an RS?' - the right chassis number certainly but a certificate - even I've got some of those but I don't know what they prove!

Tony
 
Allegedly after a few laps of the Weissach Circuit once the Tiptronic programmed itself a Tip C2 with MOO2 spec would be .5sec quicker .... not surprised with all the changing and weird chicanes ...
 

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