I've had a 944 S2 as a weekend toy for 2 years now and I love it, but the lure of a 'proper' Porsche with real power and a flat 6 in the back has always been there. Now, with early 996's starting at around £9k, the temptation has really got a hold of me. My question is, is that too cheap? I know that's a crude question, but should I automatically avoid cars at that level? Realistically, as a second car, my budget is around £10k.
Too cheap?
- Thread starter Ru2S7
- Start date
Chrishazle
Active member
You've got a proper Porsche, why would you be tempted to change (except maybe for a 968?)!!
I would say that the £9k 996 will probably need a good dose of TLC. I doubt you will get a low mileage cherished car with a stack of recent receipts for that money, but you might find one you can bring up to scratch over a period of time to spread the cost.
JuliusF
New member
My experience isn't too different to this, and as Richard says as long as you go in with your eyes open and accept you'll need to spend some money as you go along, you can get into 996 ownership quite economically.
I got a 30 day guarantee from the dealer I bought it from, and tested it heartily during that time! And a couple of bits of work needed to be done in that period, but other than that my first year of ownership came with a bill of around £400 for an Indy service and a few consumables.
That said I have had to live with a few rattles and squeaks and anomalies which I'm gradually fixing a bit at a time. Excepting brakes and disks which would hav had to be done anyway, my essential spend year 2 will be around £1,000. I have spent a good bit more than that, but that's because mine needed a complete new exhaust and manifolds, and I went all stainless.
From mine own experience I'd say the things to bear in mind are:
1. Check for a service history if possible - if there's nothing available or gaps that's atypical - most enthusiastic owners keep all the records I was lucky, it came with a file with every receipt and stamp since new.
2. A higher mileage car over 85k is not actually high mileage per year - there is a school of thought that a 996 that has done this level of mileage is less likely to suffer IMS failure (anecdotal).
3. Find a friendly Indy (most of them are) and get it on a ramp to check exhaust condition and check for potential RMS and transmission oil leaks.
4. Get the Indy to plug in a 996 specific (very important) diagnostics computer and see whether there are errors in the buffer - they'll usually tell you whether there's any lurking electronic or sensor nasties.
5. Check for creaky suspension - coffin arm failures are common - not necessarily a deal breaker but you may have to live with it a while. Also on test drives, listen for clunky bumps, anti roll bars may need a service.
6. Test drive it to your satisfaction - it should feel special and inspire you - if it feels wrong it probably is.
Hardly an exhaustive list, just my personal experience on what I did (and would have done) with the benefit of hindsight.
Good luck - I still look at mine everyday and pinch myself I finally got one - love it!
J
I got a 30 day guarantee from the dealer I bought it from, and tested it heartily during that time! And a couple of bits of work needed to be done in that period, but other than that my first year of ownership came with a bill of around £400 for an Indy service and a few consumables.
That said I have had to live with a few rattles and squeaks and anomalies which I'm gradually fixing a bit at a time. Excepting brakes and disks which would hav had to be done anyway, my essential spend year 2 will be around £1,000. I have spent a good bit more than that, but that's because mine needed a complete new exhaust and manifolds, and I went all stainless.
From mine own experience I'd say the things to bear in mind are:
1. Check for a service history if possible - if there's nothing available or gaps that's atypical - most enthusiastic owners keep all the records I was lucky, it came with a file with every receipt and stamp since new.
2. A higher mileage car over 85k is not actually high mileage per year - there is a school of thought that a 996 that has done this level of mileage is less likely to suffer IMS failure (anecdotal).
3. Find a friendly Indy (most of them are) and get it on a ramp to check exhaust condition and check for potential RMS and transmission oil leaks.
4. Get the Indy to plug in a 996 specific (very important) diagnostics computer and see whether there are errors in the buffer - they'll usually tell you whether there's any lurking electronic or sensor nasties.
5. Check for creaky suspension - coffin arm failures are common - not necessarily a deal breaker but you may have to live with it a while. Also on test drives, listen for clunky bumps, anti roll bars may need a service.
6. Test drive it to your satisfaction - it should feel special and inspire you - if it feels wrong it probably is.
Hardly an exhaustive list, just my personal experience on what I did (and would have done) with the benefit of hindsight.
Good luck - I still look at mine everyday and pinch myself I finally got one - love it!
J
Thanks all and sorry for the cliche 'proper' Porsche thing. Trust me, I love my 944, if could find a way to keep it, and buy a 996, I would, but alas, I can't have it all.
My budget would also allow approx 2k for maintenance each year, so, JuliusF, your comments are encouraging, although they've made my 'itch' even worse!
At 10k most cars are 3.4's and I've read that they are more susceptible to IMS/RMS issues. Any 3.4 guys out there that want to share their experiences? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
My budget would also allow approx 2k for maintenance each year, so, JuliusF, your comments are encouraging, although they've made my 'itch' even worse!
At 10k most cars are 3.4's and I've read that they are more susceptible to IMS/RMS issues. Any 3.4 guys out there that want to share their experiences? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
kerrykakoullis
New member
I bought a 3.4 about 8 months ago its a 1998 with 48K on the clock full service history OPC. I paid 11K for it but did need a bit of TLC. It had a seized varo cam solenoid on 1 bank which was around £700 to fix but apart from that the car was perfect so if you can stretch your budget a bit you could be lucky and find one. The 3.4 is quick, a friend of mine has a 3.6 and i can't tell the difference. I have just done the gunto hack done on my car and it now sounds amazing. good luck with your search.
JagdHamster
New member
Looking at Autotrader, £10K will get you some nice 3.4s from private sellers.
Here are some that look nice:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506064104701
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201505273800522
Get a specialist to give a £300 check-over and you'll have a bargain.
Good luck!
Russ
Here are some that look nice:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506064104701
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201505273800522
Get a specialist to give a £300 check-over and you'll have a bargain.
Good luck!
Russ
I saw that green one, because it's a manual and a coupe, which is what I want. I'm not too keen on the colour but at least it's different and works well with the interior.
Has anyone used a specilaist to do a pre-purchase inspection? Wouldn't they need to put it on a ramp?
Also, is there any maintenance/cost reason to steer me away from a C4?
Has anyone used a specilaist to do a pre-purchase inspection? Wouldn't they need to put it on a ramp?
Also, is there any maintenance/cost reason to steer me away from a C4?
I like the look of this one:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506134300160/sort/default/page/1/body-type/coupe/make/porsche/postcode/nn297ja/radius/1500/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/transmission/manual/usedcars/channel/cars/model/911_mk_996?logcode=p
What do you think?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506134300160/sort/default/page/1/body-type/coupe/make/porsche/postcode/nn297ja/radius/1500/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/transmission/manual/usedcars/channel/cars/model/911_mk_996?logcode=p
What do you think?
JagdHamster
New member
Looks nice.
Green is lovely, but unpopular, so re-sale is trickier.
I would suggest AutoFarm near to you (between Northampton and Cambridge, right?), but really you need one near to the seller.
That car is at Warrington, Lancashire, so it would have to be these guys (they know more about the engines than just about anyone):
http://www.hartech.org
If they say it's okay, it will be. Money well spent. You might like to ask about their service plans, too.
Russ
Green is lovely, but unpopular, so re-sale is trickier.
I would suggest AutoFarm near to you (between Northampton and Cambridge, right?), but really you need one near to the seller.
That car is at Warrington, Lancashire, so it would have to be these guys (they know more about the engines than just about anyone):
http://www.hartech.org
If they say it's okay, it will be. Money well spent. You might like to ask about their service plans, too.
Russ
JuliusF
New member
Also on the 3.4 vs 3.6 thing, again ref my comments on higher mileage cars. Although there's no guarantee against RMS failure, given a 5% failure ratio being generally accepted, there is a statistical argument that most of those that are going to fail will probably have done so by now.
Personally I suspect in years to come it will be the C2 3.4's the next generation of purists will go for, and given that all new 911's will be turbo to some degree from next year, there will probably be a whole new debate.
At the end of the day, top tip is if you drive it and it feels right, it probably is! These cars are for driving.
Good luck.
J
Personally I suspect in years to come it will be the C2 3.4's the next generation of purists will go for, and given that all new 911's will be turbo to some degree from next year, there will probably be a whole new debate.
At the end of the day, top tip is if you drive it and it feels right, it probably is! These cars are for driving.
Good luck.
J
I'm near Wellingborough but willing to travel a fair distance for the right car, so it's useful to know what specialists are available away from home. For major work on my 944 I've used Promax, just outside Milton Keynes.
For my budget it's probably going to be a 3.4 but I'm happy with that, plus pre-2001 cars are considerably cheaper to tax.
What I'm less clear about is C2 vs C4? I'm tempted by C4 but wonder if there are any additional maintenance issues to consider.
For my budget it's probably going to be a 3.4 but I'm happy with that, plus pre-2001 cars are considerably cheaper to tax.
What I'm less clear about is C2 vs C4? I'm tempted by C4 but wonder if there are any additional maintenance issues to consider.
kerrykakoullis
New member
you will have more fun in the c2 
To answer the original question - no, I don't think early 996's are too cheap, it's just a reflection of where the market is at present. As other owners have said condition and history are the key factors; where you choose to buy from and how much you pay are then up to you. Obviously you need sufficient funds to maintain it properly and I think this is where some people skimp, leading to problems.
I have a '98 C2 3.4, which I have owned since late 2007 (with the exception of a 10 month spell when I sold it and bought it back again, but that's another story!). I looked at many on PistonHeads and in Autotrader, but only 3 'in the flesh'. I paid slightly over the odds for mine at the time as I wanted to buy from a local dealer, however it was evident that he was a complete car nut and had actually bought it for himself (I have since bought another couple of cars from him). The car has a full service history, some OPC/some indy/some my local garage and currently has almost 99,000 miles on the clock. It has been well looked after and my local OPC said it was a good example for the year when they inspected it a few years ago. I have had a few 'non-service' items replaced over the years as you would expect however I haven't covered very many miles so running costs have been very reasonable. The only modification is a sports exhaust and non-standard stereo head unit. I bought it with an RMS leak; I knew what it was at the time however the rest of the car warranted taking a small risk. It still leaks, however the oil never needs topping up between services and I will get it replaced when the clutch packs up. If I were to sell mine I would be looking at between £8,000 and £9,000 I would guess, which to me is too cheap given its condition and the way it has been looked after, but that's the going rate.
If you do a bit of homework and buy with your eyes open you won't be disappointed, and having driven a C4 I would say that C2 is the way to go. Don't be scared off by the well worn stories of RMS/IMS failures and other associated 996 issues, and I would say don't get too anal about the extent of the checks that you have done before buying. At the end of the day these are pretty old cars and will have faults. To me spending 20% and possibly more of a car's value on forensic examinations is a waste of money; you would be better paying a couple of hundred pounds for an inspection at an reputable indy and banking the rest for maintenance costs. Good luck!
I have a '98 C2 3.4, which I have owned since late 2007 (with the exception of a 10 month spell when I sold it and bought it back again, but that's another story!). I looked at many on PistonHeads and in Autotrader, but only 3 'in the flesh'. I paid slightly over the odds for mine at the time as I wanted to buy from a local dealer, however it was evident that he was a complete car nut and had actually bought it for himself (I have since bought another couple of cars from him). The car has a full service history, some OPC/some indy/some my local garage and currently has almost 99,000 miles on the clock. It has been well looked after and my local OPC said it was a good example for the year when they inspected it a few years ago. I have had a few 'non-service' items replaced over the years as you would expect however I haven't covered very many miles so running costs have been very reasonable. The only modification is a sports exhaust and non-standard stereo head unit. I bought it with an RMS leak; I knew what it was at the time however the rest of the car warranted taking a small risk. It still leaks, however the oil never needs topping up between services and I will get it replaced when the clutch packs up. If I were to sell mine I would be looking at between £8,000 and £9,000 I would guess, which to me is too cheap given its condition and the way it has been looked after, but that's the going rate.
If you do a bit of homework and buy with your eyes open you won't be disappointed, and having driven a C4 I would say that C2 is the way to go. Don't be scared off by the well worn stories of RMS/IMS failures and other associated 996 issues, and I would say don't get too anal about the extent of the checks that you have done before buying. At the end of the day these are pretty old cars and will have faults. To me spending 20% and possibly more of a car's value on forensic examinations is a waste of money; you would be better paying a couple of hundred pounds for an inspection at an reputable indy and banking the rest for maintenance costs. Good luck!
JuliusF
New member
Early C2 - faster, less to go wrong, still grips in corners like nothing else I've ever driven - C4, great if you are thinking of moving to Sweden!
Joking apart I would be more cautious of an early 996 C4; they are not S power and pretty much indistinguishable from the pre facelift C2's (although I have often thought a facelift C4S would be a nice next step - I do like broad hips!).
Interestingly when the 997 came out Porsche initially indicated they had sorted the back end grip so well, they weren't going to bother with a C4 model - must have been the demand from Arctic Circle owners that made the marketing dept change their mind!
Do let us know how you get on.
J
Joking apart I would be more cautious of an early 996 C4; they are not S power and pretty much indistinguishable from the pre facelift C2's (although I have often thought a facelift C4S would be a nice next step - I do like broad hips!).
Interestingly when the 997 came out Porsche initially indicated they had sorted the back end grip so well, they weren't going to bother with a C4 model - must have been the demand from Arctic Circle owners that made the marketing dept change their mind!
Do let us know how you get on.
J
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