'Track-day' audio solution?!

[bennyboy]

Chaps, my car is half-way to being the lightweight track-day/fast-road car I want it to be (i.e. no rear seats, carpets or sound insulation, but still heavy front seats and no half-cage yet). In addition, I still have the radio head unit and front door speakers. I'm not a big music fan, but I do plan on driving the car to events/track days/Le Mans, so a bit of noisic wouldn't go a-miss. I was wondering, does anybody know of a single-din speaker unit with an aux-in plug for an ipod? Bit like this but with an aux-in?
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2007/020/h020SRK604-f_mtp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/g_62900/Center-Channel-Speakers.html%3Fcc%3D02%26tp%3D108&h=245&w=450&sz=14&hl=en&start=4&um=1&usg=__DhgcKUe88lmCZjRPjT9tWjnjdyc=&tbnid=yvrxSS8ToGu1yM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsingle%2Bdin%2Bspeaker%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGLF_en-GBGB223GB224%26sa%3DN

 

[Peter Empson]

The link only partially works, but enought to see what you're talking about, which is an pretty unusual design. To be honest I bet it sounds pants (too small drivers and enclosure), but for a bit of noise it might be ok. Trouble is I cannot see it drowning out the noise of your car very well, after I'd removed the sound deadening and carpets from the back of my car we had to shout to converse at light throttle and it was impossible to talk over 4k ish. The plastic rear screen and slightly noisy exhaust didn't help I admit, but it was amazing how much difference the felt on the rear arches made (for example). I'm sticking with front speakers on the white car as I must have music on the way to track, but may replace them with noise cancelling headphones if the speakers can't keep up...

 

[944 man]

Ive fitted new rear speakers which dont weight a great deal, along with a removable amplifier, through which I play my iPod.

 

[944 man]

Id have opted for front speakers too, but I couldnt be arsed drilling 800 holes in my aluminium door cards.....

 

[sawood12]

Well i'm looking for an iPod connectable head unit that doesn't have all the CD gubbins. I reckon a unit like that would be pretty light. Parrot do one I think but i've not been able to find one in any of the high street shops. I'm surprised the health and safty posse havn't banned the use of aux-in MP3 players as fiddling with your iPod whilst driving is even more dangerous than fiddling with your mobile. My current head unit allows you to control the iPod from the head unit so the controls are the same as for a CD changer and you can operate whilst keeping your eyes on the road.

To be honest something like that shown in the link would be a waste of money in my opinion. There is no point in listening to music unless you have reasonably good quality - the sound of the engine makes a better sound than tinny music. I'd personally listen to an iPod through the earphones at a low enough volume to allow you to hear the traffic around you.

 

[Fen]

I was going to suggest headphones, ane Peter's noise-cancelling suggestion is excellent. If the car is already noisy and you're trying to blast some sort of audio over the top you're making the environment even noisier, which isn't great from the perspective of your hearing generally. Additionally you are going to need more power in the amplifier, and speakers to handle it, just so it can be heard and that means more expensive and probably heavier kit which is frankly wasted on the solution. Headphones, and especially noise-cancelling ones, that keep some of the undesirable noise (not the engine so much as gearbox whine, stiff rattling of the floor and inner arches etc. I'd guess) out.

I'm about to trial ear defenders with iPod earbuds underneath on my lawn tractor - in ear buds that seal though, not the rubbish Apple provide with the iPod.


OT, but in your audio-expert capacity what is a good choice of noise-cancelling phones? I want some for the train commute (and lawnmower!) and while I might pay for the Bose QC3 if they are really superior, is there annything better or just as good for less with a different badge on it?

 

[sawood12]

My dad splashed out on the expensive Bose ones (about £400 a few years ago) and he raves on about them. I got some cheap(ish) Sony ones for £99 around the same time which work OK but nowhere near in the Bose league - they seem to emit a high pitched tinny noise that you can't hear but can feel inside your head if that makes sense. Not uncomfortable or annoying, but just a bit strange. My dad's Bose are just like putting ear plugs in - completely silent. I also use mine with no music as ear defenders on long haul flights when trying to sleep.

 

[Peter Empson]

I'd honestly do anything not to buy a Bose product, but it does seem like they've made a product that for once that deserves some of the marketing and hype.

Personally I'd be using some of Sennheiser NC headphones if I go down this route, but then again I do sell 'em...

 

[Fen]

That's my idea - use them to kill the noise on the train even if I don't actually want music on. You've reminded me I bought some Sony ones a long time ago (like 15 years, maybe), but they are pretty rubbish. They kill the constant background "whoosh" of a plane, but they can't cope with anything dynamic. As I recall from a very quick play with Bose ones in the Apple Store in Exeter they seemed much better. Then again Bose have a reputation for selling average speakers for high-end money, so I wonder if I can get equivalently good headphones for less.

 

[Fen]

We cross posted Peter. You comments re: Bose underline what I was getting at above - no audiophile would touch their speakers which (not having tried them) are evidently a triumph of marketing over performance.

Do you think the Sennheiser ones are as good/better? What do they go for cost-wise? Have you ever seen a comparsion review between Bose and others?

 

[Fen]

I just found a review where the Sennheisers come in immediately behind the 2 Bose models, but the outright winner is a Jabra with a Logitech on second. Both Jabra and Logitech models are now discontinued []

It did point me at BlackBox which are Kiwi made and getting rave reviews on the 'net. At half the price of the QC3 and available for demo in Wellington I might just give a pair a test drive on Monday. www.blackboxonline.com if anyone is interested.

 

[bennyboy]

Headphones are not very sociable though! TBH, the car is not too loud at motorway speeds with the rear carpet in place (which of course can soon be removed on the track!) I suppose a single-cd unit with aux-in would do the trick and not weigh a great deal. I may be being naive here, but is there any adaptor you can get to connect an ipod directly into the speakers (i.e. through the cable that goes into the back of the head unit)?

 

[DavidL]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Well i'm looking for an iPod connectable head unit that doesn't have all the CD gubbins. I reckon a unit like that would be pretty light. Parrot do one I think but i've not been able to find one in any of the high street shops. I'm surprised the health and safty posse havn't banned the use of aux-in MP3 players as fiddling with your iPod whilst driving is even more dangerous than fiddling with your mobile. My current head unit allows you to control the iPod from the head unit so the controls are the same as for a CD changer and you can operate whilst keeping your eyes on the road.

To be honest something like that shown in the link would be a waste of money in my opinion. There is no point in listening to music unless you have reasonably good quality - the sound of the engine makes a better sound than tinny music. I'd personally listen to an iPod through the earphones at a low enough volume to allow you to hear the traffic around you.

Scott,
I posted about the Parrot item a while back. Someone here had bought one and promptly returned it (to Halfords I think) as it was fairly dreadful across the board.
If you can't find one I imagine it has been withdrawn pending a review
I don't think that was the only one returned!

 

[sawood12]

Thanks for that David. I did see it on their website but not in store. I wanted to try before I bought.

I think Bose get a bad rap. They are pricey but do seem to plough alot into R&D. My dad also has their home cinema system - the small twin cubes. He ditched the rubbish passive sub that was part of the kit, but the small cubes are superb for satelite speakers. They provide excellent 'big speaker' sound quality and even sound great for music. I've got a Kef setup which sound's as good, but the speaker units are much bigger and heavier.

Ben - I've not seen one but you could rig something up with an amp between the pre-out output of the iPod and the speakers. It could all be hidden out of view and free up your head unit ISO slot for some nice gauges!

 

[Peter Empson]

I've not really spent real time with NC headphones, I don't use 'phones much if I'm honest and when I do I just use my open backed Grado's which are great at home.

I have experimented only with the smallest Sennheiser NC headphones (£80 and £100) that we keep and they seem to work well at keeping out continuous noise, but I'm not sure how they compare with dynamic noise, as I've never managed to put them back to back with the alternative Bose model.

So sorry, I'm not a great help, but if you want a nice valve amp, turntable and some horns for the back of a 944 I'm your man []

 

[bennyboy]

Ben - I've not seen one but you could rig something up with an amp between the pre-out output of the iPod and the speakers. It could all be hidden out of view and free up your head unit ISO slot for some nice gauges!

Now that sounds interesting! I really didn't think I needed an amp though- so those Ipod docks with the speakers have an inbuilt amp do they?

 

[Big Dave]

Is it actually legal to wear headphones whilst driving a car.???
I was under the impression it was illegal.???
Anyway.
I have a pair of the Sennheiser nc phones , that ive used to GREAT effect on long haul flights, hooked up to either an Ipod or to watch the in flight movies...

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

I think Bose get a bad rap. They are pricey but do seem to plough alot into R&D. My dad also has their home cinema system - the small twin cubes. He ditched the rubbish passive sub that was part of the kit, but the small cubes are superb for satelite speakers. They provide excellent 'big speaker' sound quality and even sound great for music. I've got a Kef setup which sound's as good, but the speaker units are much bigger and heavier.

Bose bass box/sat speakers are a lifestyle product and I feel if you treat them as that they are acceptable for what they are. Sonically I find them very poor for music but then most home cinema applications are much less demanding in critical areas which is the market this sort of stuff is generally sold into.

I feel the build is dissapointing for the money (I've repaired a few) and I didn't find parts/build quality that seemed to compare well with others. Kef at the same price seem to use much less resonant cabinets and very unusual custom made drivers and I'd wager that their development costs are much greater than most. Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of these either (and we're Kef retailers) as I feel this move towards tiny sat's and bass box combinations is fundamentally wrong for music replay as the mid band (vocal/string region etc) must always suffer.

In my experience the cubes are nothing more than plastic/chip board box with a cone driver or two (not a dome as is normally used for high frequencies). These are crossed very high meaning that large portions of the mid band are split between cubes and bass box (this is probably the source of the main problem when replaying music). The fact that your father felt it was beneficial to dispose of the bass boxes is quite telling, and they're where I think a larger percentage of the budget has gone.

I hate to come across as a snob, but for less money you can buy much more musical speakers than any sat/bass box and they don't have to take up much more space (volumterical less if you count the bass box).

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

Is it actually legal to wear headphones whilst driving a car.???
I was under the impression it was illegal.???
Anyway.
I have a pair of the Sennheiser nc phones , that ive used to GREAT effect on long haul flights, hooked up to either an Ipod or to watch the in flight movies...

I'm not sure 100% of the legality, but would be interested to hear from anyone that can confirm this. I could not find a rule that states headphones are illegal in the UK whilst driving as such (I suppose it could be argued it would rule out hands free devices if it were). I think as long as you can prove that road sounds are still audible to you then you should be ok. The deaf/hard of hearing are able to hold a license and the average car owner with their volume cranked up probably have very little awareness of sounds around them after all.

 

[Fen]

I suspect it isn't illegal to wear headphones, but it probably is to be unable to hear what's going on - something that is a problem in itself in a stipped out car even without music. In practical terms motorcyclists can't hear much at speed between their helmet and wind noise, plus many wear ear plugs. It might give you some explaining to do in an accident, but actually NC headphones might be a boon here as they are best at cancelling out drones such as wind, exhaust tyre and engine noise and not so great with unexpected sounds like horns - you might hear the sounds you need to more clearly wearing a pair.

In terms of sociability headphones aren't the pinnacle, but I had expected the car was already too noisy inside to hold a conversation. There is always the intercom option in that case.