Track day insurance

[Jacob]

First track day looming (croft). I am not covered under my current insurance policy and will be looking to take cover out.
Which companies are best to call first and what costs should I expect?

I have been reading with great interest all previous post on all track related info and you guys have given some great advice, many thanks

 

[Jamie Summers]

The only people I've come across who do cover 'by the day' are Competition Car Insurance. But you will find that it's a pretty expensive way of doing it. About £100 gets you a reasonable level of cover on a 3.2 but with a huge excess. YOu would have to be very unlucky indeed to do much more damage than the size of the excess, so you have to ask yourself the question if it's really worth it ? For peace of mind doing your first trackday it's probably worthwhile, but you will realise that accidents are thankfully few and far between at trackdays, and that most people with cars of similar value to ours simply don't bother with insurance cover - it's not mandatory.
Although I couldn't possibly recommend it

I have heard that it is not unknown that if an accident happens on-track a friendly person with trailer or similar might be persuaded to tow your car away from the circuit and leave it close to a suitable ditch etc. so as to allow a normal accident claim ?????

Jamie

 

[Guest]

Don't go there. If you get convicted for insurance fraud you're royally f%cked.

A good suggestion is to insure with RSA - they cover PCGB track days. Your excess doubles but thats about it. Peart and other brokers know about this.

I would echo Jamie's comments - accidents are rare. I have only ever seen one where the driver was virtually blameless due to a big oil spill. Otherwise, there is always driver error. If you are a beginner, you will be at 8/10s max. Just be sensible, learn the line, be smooth and stay out of the way of other cars, leading or following. Speed will come, but this will keep you safe.

Richard

 

[944Turbo]

Liverpool Victoria will cover you for tracktime with no timing or competative element - I cancelled my policy took out a policy with them got cover and saved money.
Tony

 

[Mark_Bennett]

A heads up on Liverpool Victoria. They have been telling people that they no longer cover track days, and have even been indicating that they would not honour existing policies for this!
Only repeating what I have seen elsewhere...[&o]

 

[Guest]

They cannot unilaterally change the terms of their cover. If the wording was originally wide enough to cover track days then it still is - they can say whatever they like, but a court will hold them to the words of the policy. Moral of story: check the wording of your policy.

This raises an interesting point. The wording of most policies only excludes timed events (although some exclude anything on a racetrack), in which case track days are covered (provided no timing). Again, it doesn't matter what the insurer says. Not wanting to get all legal, but in accordance with the contra proferentum rule, if there is ambiguity, a court will construe it against the insurer seeking to rely on the exclusion ie., they will give it a narrow construction. The terms of the RSA policy are much the same as many others only their acknowledgement that cover extends to PCGB track days gets rid of the potential admin hassle in making a successful claim ie., you don't have to go to court to get the cash.

BTW, I am not an insurance lawyer - but I do a nice line in credit derivatives.

RB

 

[Ian Donkin]

ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau

I would echo Jamie's comments - accidents are rare.

Guys

I did a track day a couple of years ago at Cadwell Park (admittedly in the rain) where a very nice 993 RS ended up on it's side in the tyre wall on the back straight! and a 944 Turbo managed to inflict massive front and rear damage on another corner...

I want to take my Turbo 2 on a track day to explore some of its potential, but I wouldn't do it without insurance. My previous 3.2 was enough of a handful.

Can the club not try to arrange something through one of our key sponsors such as Carole Nash? I know AON used to include trackday cover it but they won't cover my current car as a classic any more as they say it's too new (as did Carole Nash this time at renewal)!

Surely this is a good opportunity for one of the insurers?

 

[Ian Donkin]

Richard

Interesting point.

I read my wife's policy [Direct Line] and this year it specifically made mention to track days and excludes them.

Are insurers picking up on the point you make?

Ian

 

[Mark_Bennett]

This was reported on more than one other forum - someone called Liverpool Victoria about track cover in relation to thier policy, and the fact that someone else had a letter confirming cover:

I had quoted the 'my friend has it in writing from you' aspect, and he did advise this to the underwriter, who emphatically assured him that they used to cover this, but now don't, i.e. the cover has changed. So given that the underwriter know's this has changed, implies they knew it was previously covered but now isn't.

I also queried him on the validity of anyone who is under the impression they are covered, and has it in writing, and he couldnt confirm either way the position, as that wasnt the question he asked the underwriter, but suggests anyone concerned contacts the underwriter to confirm. As you have it in writing, you are obvioulsy in a stronger position to argue

I would say that if you have it in writing, then they haven't a leg to stand on, but there was obviously some implication that they would try and wriggle...

 

[Jamie Summers]

Spot on. Over the last couple of years insurance companies have begun to notice the somewhat 'grey area' that is trackdays, and as such have started excluding them specifically on most normal road policies. The wording used to be something along the lines of 'no competitive or timed events', but they have tightened this up to cover trackdays specifically.

I'm really not sure whether the growth in numbers of people doing trackdays is going to make things easier or more dificult in the future as far as insurance goes. Clearly there is a large gap in the market for someone to exploit but there is very little reliable information available about trackdays in terms of hard facts and statistics on which underwriters are able to asses and quantify risk. I would imagine that in reality the likelihood of having an accident is actually much higher on the road than on-track, however the road is governed by laws and depending on how those laws are applied with regard to an accident blame can be assessed and the validity of insurance claims guaged, the same cannot be said of tracks which are only governed by circuit 'rules'. All in all it is a much easier decision for an insurace company to exclude trackdays altogether then they do not have to deal with the problem at all !

The trackday 'industry' (although rather disjointed in nature) has been lobbying insurers to create track-policies. These do now exist and are in the process of being launched by people like Easytrack (search their web forum for threads on insurance) and some specialist brokers are able to do raod and track cover eg. Chris Wilkins on 0208 7738123. They tend to only be competitive on higher value cars though.

It's a tricky one. I have yet to find an insurance company that will offer me a competitive premium that covers trackdays (even PCGB) given my specific circumstances. I would like to have track cover and am prepared to pay an additional premium for it, however for the time being it just doesn't work out, so I will continue to take my chances with trackdays.

Jamie

 

[Jacob]

you're not going to believe it...

I have took out my insurance with Liverpool Victroria today (Carole Nash's renewal was ££££'s more than last year) after confirming all details I asked how much cover would be for track days.The young lady promptly informed me that I would be covered. I asked her again (I couldnt believe it) and as long as I am not racing or doing time trials I would be covered.

Once all the documents come through I will study them carefully.

 

[Jamie Summers]

Jacob,
I would be really careful, LV seem to tell different customers very different things. I had heard this before this thread started - I'm not sure whether it has anything to do with the model of car, but some people (like you) have been told that track cover is included and just as many have been explicitly told that track cover is not included, as you can see from previous posts. If I were you I would insist that it is confirmed in writing.

Jamie

 

[Yoda]

I don't think this type of sharp practice is confined to LV (who quoted me but declined to provide track cover). I got a very competitive quote and was told that track cover would be provided for PCGB events and others organised by reputable organisers eg Heritage, RMA etc. They specifically excluded Easytrack and BookATrack saying they had a bad track record.

Once I took the policy out they tried to decline cover for all non PCGB track days and I was unable to talk to the manager who was initially so helpful and had discussed the policy with me. After several calls, they eventually agreed and sent me a letter confirming the cover. The policy worked out significantly cheaper than the other alternatives and includes agreed value cover but I am disappointed by their attitude and customer service. I ám unlikely to renew with them.

I was previously insured with Auto Torque (RSA policy similar to Aon) and spoke to Chris and John. They were superb and provided real customer service. If their premium had been competitive when I changed my car I would have stuck with them for sure.

My suggestion is go with someone who provides quality cover otherwise they will fall short when you really need them.

Regards

 

[Andy Roe]

My Ex-Girlfriend is an underwriter for a sports insurer. She told me that all insurance companies appear to be working towards excluding track days from their cover & that it is going to get VERY expensive in the next year or so. Not good news!

Andy

 

[944Turbo]

In my experience with LV not all the quote people know what a trackday is however if they check with the supervisor they have said 'non-competative ' or events with 'no timing' are covered.
Tony

 

[IanHighfield]

The May edition of 911 & Porsche World magazine has a 3 page article on Trackday Insurance. Speak to Richard Egger of Competition Car Insurance on 0115-941-5255 or see www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk.

Hope this helps, with example premiums from £173 - £871 !

 

[Gary Bullen]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS"]After years of trying to negotiate a tailor made deal to suit our own specific requirements guess what, we've finally cracked it. Speak to Chris Wilkins at Bickley insurance (0208 773 81230) and mention my name and titanic. Bickley have a special deal via Norwich Union. The more experience you have regarding track days and the longer your Porsche ownership history the better. There is only one way to find out so give Chris a call. It gets even better because Chris Wilkins has also got the track day bug. He came to Brands with us on 6th August and promptly joined the Magic Roundabout club (360 club). You'll have to ask him to explain this. Good luck and let us know how you get on.