Track day oriented 911E - what tyres?

[oldtimer]

Hi everyone , I am interested in doing trackdays with a 200bhp 2.4S engined 911E fitted with 15 inch Fuchs wheels - 6 inch rims on front and 7 inch rims on rear. Its also fitted with uprated clutch , 915 box + LSD , uprated suspension so should be able to cope with the excitement. No ABS of course.

Current road tyres fitted are Pirelli P6000 , sizes 15x 195/65 and 15x 215/60 respectively.
For 'sticky compound' road legal track tyres I have used Toyo R888 on my 964RS and I like the grip they give , however the available 15 inch sizes are limited to: 195/50; 195/55; 205/50; 215/50; and 225/45.

As I understand it , if I were to go with the 195/55 size on front 6 inch rims and 215/50 on rear 7 inch rims , the result of the Toyo's lower profile would be 107.25 / 107.5mm sidewalls compared to the Pirelli's 126.75mm / 129mm sidewalls , effectively lowering the car by 20mm ? Would there be any adverse effects of this , I can see benefits eg lower CoG.....

Has anyone tried modern lower profile tyres or road legal 'grippy' track tyres and what was the result / recommendation ?

PS I know cut slicks are not wonderful in the wet but I dont think the car will be going out in the wet much ...in deference to its great age and a desire not to encourage corrosion more than is necessary []

 

[vic cohen]

Hi John wud think abt sticking to period Contis and not going the 'low profile' track day route for ultimate grip .............................u can easily cope with the BHP involved and not loose the original feel of the chassis...........even Michelin TBs retain a controllable drift factor ........................remember low profiles did nt exist when these chassis were designed !

 

[911hillclimber]

Unless your 7'' rear rims are the fancy 'inset' rims I would be surprised if the 215's would go under the rear arches (stock wings?)

I've hillclimbed for years on 7 x 15 x 205 x 50 and the car is really good.

I think the Toyo R888 are not list 1 road tyres but list 1B MSA catagory.

Be careful about race regulations if you do compete the car.

 

[38F3E1]

Always used Michelin Pilot Sport Cups 205/50 front and rear on my track 1973 2.4E. Used on both 6" rims and 7" rims on car with no issues and gripped well. Car was a stripped out with stiff suspension to minimise camber issues with using a modern profile tire.

Even though fitting low profile modern tires will make the car lower (a good thing) the car will actually look higher due to the increased gap between wheel and arch. Don't make the mistake of then lowering the car more to reduce this gap or you will compromise the suspension to much and screw up the handling.

Here's a pic of the car with the 205/50 tires on 6" rims. You can see what I mean about the tires looking small in the arches.

However for a more road orientated car I would be tempted to use a correct profile tire such as the Avon CR6ZZ or Michelin XWX and have a more slidy car. Not as fast but more controllable and just as much fun. I would think the Avon would be the more track focused out of the older tires.

Ian.

 

[jason]

nice buy John and sorry not got around to ringing - we go on holiday in an hour so will ring from the airport!

Enjoy!

 

[oldtimer]

Hi guys , in quick order

cheers vic u r txting 2 much []

yes Graham , I believe they are the 'fancy' 7 inchers from a 911R with internal offset , dont know about arches being flared , think they are the standard as fitted for 69 911E (LWB)

interesting Ian, using same size MPSCs front and rear , an expensive tyre compared to toyo but better looking!
Yes , thought about it looking like wheels too small when figured out the visible difference in tyre height , a bit counter culture for me having had 17inchers on a 964 and 993 and 19inchers on a 997.
cheers Jason look forward to comparing notes.
I probably will do nothing before Pirellis wear out.....realise could be heading for slippery slope of more grip = more lateral G = need grippy seats = need harnesss = need roll cage = more££ [8|]

 

[911hillclimber]

Last sentence should finish '' = More Fun''
But only when you have spent a few pennys.

I run Kumho V70 soft tyres which give huge grip for a road tyre (list 1B's) but will last about 4000 miles tops.

Still think 15 x 7 on 205 x 50 all round takes some beating.

 

[oldtimer]

Cheers Graham , what seats have you fitted and is it a simple swap out - I just need fabric finish or nomex buckets with harness slots and with front/back slide adjustment , no tilting or backrest adjustment needed , similar to the lightweight recaros fitted to 964RS . I' m not going to enter competitions []

 

[38F3E1]

ORIGINAL: oldtimer

... interesting Ian, using same size MPSCs front and rear ...

With the power you get out of a 2.4 plus the style of track driving I have been taught I have never had a problem with the rears not having enough grip using same size tires as front.

Ian.

 

[911hillclimber]

I have a simple no-nonesense race seat from Sparco, well supporting and light. Amazingly comfortable.
Trick is to spend time getting it just right.
Demon Tweeks sell them, but have a lot on display where you can sit in them for ages (important)

The difference in car control that comes from a snug-fit seat and a tight 4 point harness is huge!
By the way, get a 3'' wide seat belt set, 2'' is just to narrow for comfort.
Graham.

 

[Yoda]

Hi John ..... what did you buy? Any pics or details. Hope you are well.

Regards

 

[oldtimer]

Hi Yoda , have you got a house with big garage to put cars in yet, now prices are dropping ?
Anyway ,first attempt to post pics to a PCGB forum , not enough powers of concentration to embellish it with description but pictures tell a thousand words []

 

[vic cohen]

well, u got to get the n/side door mirror off, thats 3 mph top speed! Lots of fun with it John we ll see u out in it soon i hope ..............................

 

[38F3E1]

You must have bought this off Patrick Dunster. Could you do me a favour, when you have the time, and send me your details and the chassis number so I can add you to the early 911 register. 911@porscheclubgb.com should get it to me. From the chassis number I can also give you the original details of the car.

Thanks.
Ian.

 

[Jamie Summers]

John,
Lovely looking car, I look forward to seeing it in the flesh ! You happened to mention roll cages ........... It just so happens that I have a Heigo bolt-in half cage in steel for a pre '89 car (even has removable door bars). It has just been put into my RS, but I'm not happy with the fit in a 964 (it was previously in a 3.2 Carrera). The catch is that it is from a sun-roof equiped car (which I wasn't told before the cage was fitted !), so I'm taking it out of the RS and reverting to my old Matter bolt-in jobbie.
Soooo, if your car has a sunroof, then this cage would fit in a treat ! Let me know if it's of any interest (I give you very good price yes !), otherwise I'll stick it on Pistonheads / eBay.

Hope all is well.

Jamie

 

[oldtimer]

Hi Jamie , no sunroof ! So unfortunately will not be able to take you up on your generous offer . I understand the difference as I once almost bought a genuine Matter bolt -in but on translating the German on the label it was for a sunroof car , probably would still work after the roof had crumpled a bit first to meet immovable object [8|]

 

[Jamie Summers]

John,
Agreed - would offer some protection, but clearly better structural integrity if the cage is flush with the roof-line.

I will hawk my wares elsewhere ..........

Perhaps see you at Oulton on 1st Oct ? (Also tempted by cheeky evening at Brands on 9th Sept - just got my car back from 9m so keen to get it out on track ..........)

Jamie

 

[early 911]

Going back to tyres . . . . these look pretty cool (bloody expensive though)

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-tb.php

Phil

 

[Alex Postan]

I started life with my 2.7 Carrera using 7's and 8's and sticky low profiles - Toyo Proxes were the favourites in those dim and distant days. Since then I have seen the sense to revert to 6's and 7's and with taller tyres. The car is definitely more predictable to drive and much, much more fun. For track day use, why bother with low profile modern rubber? It's not as if you are trying to win anything is it?
Can I suggest that you stick with the P6000s or anything relatively cheap?
Advantages:
Looks right
Drives right
Costs right.
Disadvantages:
You won't be able to lap a GT3RS.