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Track debut!!!

bennyboy

New member
Well, it's been a busy few days for the General. Earlier in the week I discovered a local classic and sports car show was happening today, so I thought I'd make some enquiries. Turns out we would be parked up for an hour or so, before heading off to a local track for a few laps, before returning to the original location (Marshall's Yard, Gainsborough for any locals...).

So I gave him a good clean yesterday morning and thought I would take the opportunity to weigh him after bringing the tank. I was running fairly low but it took a full 66.49 litres, so I'm guessing a 70 litre tank? Anyways, I weighed him a couple of years back when I first got him, and running a low tank but with a full stereo system install (including parsel shelf, numberous speakers and amps), all the original seats and interior gubbings, it came in at 1480kg - which I thought quite reasonable. So, now with no rear seats or any sound deadening whatsoever, lightweight front seats, a half-cage and no air-con condensor, he came in at.... 1740kg! On the same scales! I have to assume this is completely inaccurate and will endeavour to borrow some digital corner weighting scales from work to do a proper job.

So this afternoon we parked up and I guess I was pretty early so not so many there. But within an hour there was a 928, a 968, a Boxster, half a dozen TVR's, 2 or 3 caterfields, an E-Type or 2 and a rather track-scarred D-Type replica, compete with Jaguar racing 3.8V12! Then we duly trundled off to the track and I had an absolute ball!

I didn't even know it existed until this week. It would appear to be an old air field of sorts, and is used by a company called 'Rallydrive' for rally car experiences. Therefore, the surface is not entirely perfect. Where there is tarmac it is generally pretty good, but every so often there are a number of quite pronounced 'crators' which unfortunately are pretty close to the driving line. Once you learnt to avoid them though, there was plenty of fun to be had! Attached is the best image I can find of the track, but really we were only using the bottom right hand side. A fairly short track and fairly low speed too (I was seeing 100ish on the straightest bits), but some nice opening corners. And the car was absoultely fantastic. When we got there I was behind a couple of old classics that weren't really up for the crack, but up front an R1-engined Caterfield and the D-type replica had taken off, so by the time the 2 cars in front finally pulled off (didn't think it would be very polite to pass them) the D-type was on my tail. Well I have waited a long time for this moment and when that thing was in my mirrors, I just floored it. It was putting out 380bhp, so kept up on the straights, but in the corners I just left him - even with him running 18inch XJR wheels and adjustable suspension. The '44 was a complete hoot to drive, really adjustable and balanced, and more than willing to indulge in some lovely oversteer. One of the slower corners was given me some trouble though - a 25mph right-hander in second. A long, swooping bend in a fairly tight radius, I just couldn't get the front end to bite. I got around it a little by trail braking into the bend which was a little faster, but without (really) another gear to drop down into, it made achieving a fast exit pretty challenging. I'm only running -1 degree on the front, so I assume adding a bit more camber may help. Any more suggestions?

So, all in all, an absolutely fantastic debut for the General. No overheating and pretty strong brakes (didn't want to push too hard with the current plate lift I'm getting), but fun, fun, fun! Will hopefully get access to some track pics in the next few days, which I'll get up on here asap.

The bug has bitten. Don't tell the wife!

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[:D] Sounds great fun Ben, a slippery slope awaits :ROFLMAO:

Trail braking is normally pretty good at turning these cars in, so you were spot on to try it. I'd be cautious to make too many changes to try to solve it at this stage (assuming it's ok in higher speed corners), but starting with tyre pressures and working from there back would be a good idea.

Have you booked your next track day yet? [;)]
 
Hi Pete, no not yet, I think I'll probably wait until next season now. I really want to have the brakes properly refreshed and sorted before I do another - really don't want to end up in a tyre wall after all the time, effort and money I've put in so far!
Here he is at the pre-track park-up...
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Think those are the ones the large ones anyway, in need of a refurb if I am honest though (face is fine, just starting to go on the insides of the spokes).
 
Benny, the car looks stunning! Getting out on the track is indeed something that will bite hard.
Personally my advice would be to keep it pretty much as is or be prepared to make a few mods.
It is indeed a very slippery slope, but one that can be ultimately rewarding.

Regarding turn in, our cars are built with understeer and this is often evident on slow, tight corners.
You just get front scrub/push. A couple things you can do. Yes, buy some spare wheels and then get some R spec rubber. BIG plus. Also fitting as wide a tyre up front is important. Reducing the stagger of width between front and rear too. I run 285/295 Hoosiers at the moment. I did have to have the front guards widened a little, but not as much as you'd think.

Secondly, get some adjustable camber plates and adjust your geometry before going to the track
but don't forget that by increasing your neg camber, you will also need to adj your toe. For extra turn in, you can have a small amount of Toe out eg 2mm. It doesn't sound like much but it makes a big difference. I run at least 3.5 neg and last weekend it was more like -5.
So long as you have the hardware to manage this you will find most R spec tyres are recommended to run with a fair bit of neg.

Another thing to look out for is if your car is too low. What can happen is that under hard braking and turning, you will hit and compress your bumpstops which can lead to a choppy, or worse bouncing effect. This kills turn in. Ask me how I know.
I raised my car's ride height considerably and it's improved a lot on the track. It was formerly very low though. Too low as it transpired.

It's a great feeling when you show up cars that should be superior. So many people don't even know what our cars are so it's a bit of a shock when they perform so well.

Good luck and have fun.
 
Benny,who did the vents in the nose ala 924 Turbo ?
I would love those on mine [8|]
Hi Frenchy, it is actually a 924T badge panel on my car, albeit quite bastardised. Wasn't too much of a job and I'm sure if you do a search on here you'll find the detail somewhere.

Ben.
I happen to have 4 / 8" D90,s
Interested.????
Might as well set up a DD with you Dave! How big is your garage!? May well be interested for next summer, will let you know.

Secondly, get some adjustable camber plates and adjust your geometry before going to the track
but don't forget that by increasing your neg camber, you will also need to adj your toe. For extra turn in, you can have a small amount of Toe out eg 2mm. It doesn't sound like much but it makes a big difference. I run at least 3.5 neg and last weekend it was more like -5.
So long as you have the hardware to manage this you will find most R spec tyres are recommended to run with a fair bit of neg.

Another thing to look out for is if your car is too low. What can happen is that under hard braking and turning, you will hit and compress your bumpstops which can lead to a choppy, or worse bouncing effect. This kills turn in. Ask me how I know.
I raised my car's ride height considerably and it's improved a lot on the track. It was formerly very low though. Too low as it transpired.
Hi Patrick, thanks for the advice. So I assume the camber plates allow me to adjust the camber at home, but what about the toe-in? Do you get much tyre life at 3-5deg -ve camber? I don't think my car is 'too' low. We had a little thread on here a while ago and I was edging towards the low-end, but by no means lowest. I didn't notice any bumpstop problems yesterday and I have driven a car with this problem so I think I would have picked it up.
 
Yep, the adj camber plates allow you to change it from the top rather than having to jack it up if you don't have access to a hoist. Doing the toe is more of a 'procedure' but my mechanic can do it with the car on the ground although he will use the hoist if in the shop.
As for tyre wear, well I don't drive with these settings all the time even though more than I perhaps should on the road. You have to be careful as your car will duck and dive around a lot more on the street but you get used to it. In fact my car feels strange when it's not doing this so go figure. [:D]
The bumpstop situation is a funny thing. Sometimes you don't realise it's happening. I went through a fair bit of measuring and checking all due to a very helpful person on Rennlist (Trucho) who is very knowledgeable in these matters. Worth checking up on some of his threads / posts. It does get pretty technical and far be it for me to say I understand it all, but we did make some changes and I improved my times at Oran Park south from .50 sec + to a high .48 the other day so that's a decent chunk out of a small track...Oh that and the new GT3076 turbo that we decided to slap on the 2.5L motor. Very nice.
Do you have adj sway bars? They can also help a fair bit in the tuning. Then there's LSD, better brakes, oil cooling, proper oil for the track blah blah blah [:)] You get the idea.

 
My car is a factory M030, albeit now with KW suspension, So I've got the fixed ARB's, medium blacks and LSD. Think I'll start with putting some 8's on all round with some sticky rubber, and take it from there...
 
Reading this with eyes rapidly getting greener. Sounds like you had a great time. I did their Rally school day about 9 years ago and thought it was great.

I phoned them around a year or so ago to ask about other tuition days. They do one to one teaching. The price seemed very reasonable. Never got the car sorted though.
 
My car is a factory M030, albeit now with KW suspension, So I've got the fixed ARB's, medium blacks and LSD. Think I'll start with putting some 8's on all round with some sticky rubber, and take it from there...

Do you have adj sway bars? They can also help a fair bit in the tuning.

Sound advice from 333pg333, save up and stick Weltmeister ARB`s on it. It will amaze you even more.
 
Reading this with eyes rapidly getting greener. Sounds like you had a great time. I did their Rally school day about 9 years ago and thought it was great.

I phoned them around a year or so ago to ask about other tuition days. They do one to one teaching. The price seemed very reasonable. Never got the car sorted though.

What did you make of the track? It's a shame really as they have said you can book it out for the whole day with exclusive use for £400 mid-week! Anybody got any mates in road/drive laying?!
 
I do remember it being a bit rough around the edges. I did a day which consisted of several laps of the tarmac track with an instructor and the same around the gravel track in a MkII Golf GTi. That said I did go back on another day and drove my dad's very unforgiving Westfield round for half a day without much problem so it couldn't have been too bad. We paid £45 for the day and although there wasn't exclusive use there were never more than about 4 cars on there.

I'm sure when I phoned (2 years ago) they quoted the right side of £200 for a half day with an instructor. Sounds worth while to me and if I ever get my car back on the road (sobs for a minute [:(]) I'll give it a go.
 
So I put him on the digital weigh pads this evening, an axle at a time and getting fairly consistant readings...

Front left - 350kg - Front right - 360kg
Back left - 360kg - Back right - 360kg

What's that they say about a perfect 50:50 weight balance! Amazing!

So a total of 1430kg. Less 70 litres of fuel at 0.73722kg/litre, I make that 1378kg. So I've reduced the weight of my car by approximately 100kg! Excellent!

 

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