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Track/Driver Training day 944 or M3

H

hamzamian

New member
Hi,

I have a driver training day with Driver DP (www.driverdp.com) booked soon but I'm not sure which car to take... I have the option of

1) '89 944 2.7 Lux
2) '03 BMW M3 SMG Convertible

I think the biggest differences is the gearbox (SMG vs Manual)... apart from that the cars are both front engine RWD with 50:50 weight distribution etc... the M3 is a convertible so not the stiffest chassis but its actually pretty good still.... and by contrast the suspension on the 944 is 20 or so years old and past its best...Oh i suppose there's quite a big difference in power (bhp) too and the 944 has no traction control etc which is good. I know you can turn it off on the M3 but i think it still interferes (not sure though) and can apply braking.

The other thing to consider I suppose is that I'd be a lot more upset if I accidently pranged the M3 than I would with the 944 so I'd probably push the 944 harder...

So which would you recommend taking and why?
 
The Lux.

I did a charity day at Snetterton, years ago, taking people round in my Lux. Some of the most fun I have had in a car.

Driving any car on the absolute limit (and not crashing) is way more fun than having a car who's limits are so beyond your own capabilities that you never appreciate how good it really is (or isn't).
 
Does the M3 have 50:50 weight distribution? I'm surprised - with both a heavy engine and a gearbox stuck at the front, I'm not sure how they make up for that at the back.

Given the popularity of the 944 and later 968 as trackday cars, I know which I would be choosing. (And the fact that every time I have driven an M3 I have come away deeply unimpressed by the heavy, leaden feel of the chassis.)

Not a bad choice to have to make, but I'd certainly be going for the lux.


Oli.
 
ahhh yes... no the 944 doesn't have an LSD... good point.. the M3 does though but i'm guessing you knew that already.

The point about being at the limits of the car is also true... im much less likely to be anywhere near the limits of the M3

What about the suspension on the 944 though? will i not get frustrated with it? There's certainly a lot more body roll than the M3
 
Does the M3 have 50:50 weight distribution? I'm surprised - with both a heavy engine and a gearbox stuck at the front, I'm not sure how they make up for that at the back.
Click to expand...

I'd guess that it's pretty much front-mid-engined, so not that hard to get the weight distribution.

Hamza - after spending all that money on the service there are two ways of looking at it. Either it's the perfect time to take the 44 and know it's in good fettle, or you could be a little more concerned that you'll be thrashing what is now a really sorted car.

All said - I'd imagine that on a driver training day you'll not be spending time at the limit, but building up your speed over the day. I'd not see either car being too bad for that!

Oh, the choices we have to deal with.....[:D]
 
The M3 with a roof on it has 50:50 weight distribution. Not sure about with the roof cut off. My preference would be the 944 over an M3 cab. The roof contributes to about 50% of the torsional stiffness of a car, take it away you have to add heavy beams under the car which is not the ideal place to resist tortional forces so you still get a car that is much much more flexible that the roofed version.
 
I can speak broadly from experience here in that I did a driving day with Andy Walsh at Car Limits (www.carlimits.com) in my 2001 BMW 330i, which also happens to be a saloon, as I didn't have my S2 at the time. Firstly you can turn the traction control totally off in that, so you can definitely turn it off in an M3. Just press and hold and then hold some more the DTC button and the symbol changes from red to amber which is traction control off and dynamic stability control off too. Here's a link of a video clip that I have, demonstrating a little slip, and some raw talent, obviously [;)]

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/cherry_chariot/Video/?action=view&current=Drift.flv

Whatever car you have (assuming RWD) you'll have a great day, but it is hard on the car and you have to be prepared to sacrifice your tyres. Having done this day, and a wet track day at Bedford I had to change the tyres and the rear pads (not the fronts for some reason) and that was the turning point when I decided a second, slightly more optimised car would be the best for trackdays. You spend a lot of the day learning to deal with the single most common mistake, which is excessive steering input, leading to massive understeer. Getting over this will have a significant impact on your tyres!

Therefore I would suggest that you take the 944 because it'll be cheaper on your brakes and tyres, and you will have more fun knowing you aren't imposing a lot of stress on a nice shiny expensive motor like an M3. Interestingly the guy I did it with came in an Audi TT 3.2 DSG and after 30 minutes he gave up and hired the school's Lotus Elise for the rest of the day....

 
It's a good point about tyres James - 944's seem to be pretty light on tyre wear & will certainly be better than the M3. As you say, understeer is going to kill the fronts. I'd add too high corner entry speed & coming off the brakes too early as the other things that will promote understeer.

I'd recommend Andy Walsh - lots of really good stuff to be learnt on his days (even if I don't always put it into practice [:D]). He reckons you should only lose a mm or so of tread depth during one of his days.

I had a drive of a 330d on a carlimits day - was very impressed with how controllable & light it felt for a big heavy barge [:D]. Round his coned circuit it was pretty much as fast as mine as it had the torque to pull out of the very slow hairpin corners while I'm still waiting for boost [8|]
 
Thanks for all the advice.

Unfortunately you can't turn TC off completely on the M3... the procedure you mention only works on the non M cars. The M cars don't let you turn off the braking control.

Yes i forget the 50:50 distribution is for the Coupe, not sure what the convertible is... Agreed its not as stiff but its actually still very very good. I've driven both the Coupe and the Convertible and while there is a little scuttle shake to contend with its actually still a very good chassis even as a convertible.

Wear on the car is a concern... I actually already have a complete spare set of wheels & tyres for the 944 and its only just recently had its brakes overhauled so from that perspective its a much better bet to take the 944 certainly.... the M3 is also very heavy on the brakes which isn't ideal. Only problem is that the tyres its on right now are pretty awful... Maxxis something or other and seem to slide at the slightest provocation... perhaps that will make things more fun!
 
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