trackday project

[dixhuit]

Thanks for everyones advice a while ago, my project is nearly ready to let loose at Goodwood at the end of the Month. Despite having been left abandoned for the last few years with the loving attention of my specialist (and a few bills !) I now have
944 '86 Oval dash. 3.0 litre S2 race engine fully blueprinted and fitted by Protech 285 bhp. 2.5 litre gearbox. All new Koni adjustable shocks, 16" Turbo teledials 7" and 8". Sparco Evo seats.
I/O Port Racing harness bar. Momo S/wheel, Scroth 6 point harnesses. S/S exhaust.
Lots of new bits and pieces to replace parts that had been left standing for too long.This completes stage one. Another shakedown this weekend over the Devon roads after the go-faster dent has been removed and hopefully nothing will give up the ghost and need replacing. Its running like a dream and blisteringly quick , hopefully I can now get it dynod and see whether the engine really is putting out the power that the documentation says.
So suggestions for stage two please : to include replacing rear glass and loosing weight (not me []).
Simon

 

[Neil Haughey]

Probably either M030 arb's or something from the US like Weltmeister arb's. Then some form of LSD.

Oh I forgot about the brakes. Awhile back I said that standard S2/turbo calipers manage OK when used with cooling ducts, uprated pads, x-drilled disks and uprated fluid. Now I am not to sure, I had a look at the disks and pads the other week and the outside edge of both disks was white as was the inside edge of the pads (BHP XPS pads). When my pedal went soft on the track I feel it had boiled (ATE blue fluid fresh from before christmas) but not enough to cause brake failure just made the pedal soft for a while. Note that the softness became apparent after the car had been standing for some time not whilst lapping.

Guys wouldn't this mean that I need to bleed the brakes before taking to the track again?

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: dixhuit

So suggestions for stage two please : to include replacing rear glass and loosing weight (not me []).
Simon

Drive it lots and don't spend any more money modifying it []

It sounds like a nice 'sleeper' of a track car, a bit like Peter Empsons on this list - a lightweight Lux with an S2 engine and sorted suspension. Seriously I would spend the summer going to as many track days as possible as you already have a fantastic base car. Check my signature for the dates of some days where we already have a bunch of 944s going, we'd love to see your car.

I'll be orgainising another 944 Dyno Day later in the year at Weltmeister in Silverstone if you can hang on until then to find out how your engine is doing (I can't hang on and my car is booked in tomorrow afternoon [])

If you really do want to mod it some more then I would add fibreglass wings, bonnet and Lexan hatch for less than £1000 fully painted and will lose you nearly 100kg

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Diver944


Drive it lots and don't spend any more money modifying it []....

Ah the old "Spend money on the car to improve it for track days and then not being able to afford the track days" song. I know that one.

 

[sawood12]

Agree with comments about using it though one mod you could invest in that would be the cherry on the cake is one of 9xx's 'rifle bolt action' short shift kits to give you that precise gearchange action!

 

[Peter Empson]

Sounds great Simon, loads of questions I'm afraid though!

-Do Protech have a web site, I've had a quick Google and can't find them.

-Do they give away what they do to the engine to get those sort of figures, is it cams, head work, compression etc? Do they make any claims about torque or where the power band is?

-Did they suggest how many hours/miles between rebuilds?

-How streetable (as I believe the Americans would say) is the power delivery?

I've got loads more questions, but I'll leave it there for the time being.

As for mods, I'd suggest the gearbox is a reliability weak point at the moment, I'd get it changed as soon possible, I'd be confident to predict that it will break sooner or later, even with considerate use. You must do something with the brakes too if you haven't already, the best pads and fluid are an absolute minimum.

Neil, I'd recommend getting rid of that ATE Blue as soon as you can, it's way out of its depth on track (and not great on the road either on my car). I'd suggest Castrol Response or SRF for a massive improvement in performance and feel.

I think Paul's 100kg estimate is a little optimistic for the bodywork changes alone, but if you include the seats and spare tyre then I reckon it's about right (which I suspect is what Paul meant).

As Paul says there's no substitute for enjoying these cars on track! I'd love to see it at a trackday soon and would be very interested to see what difference the extra 70hp would make on a long straight, mine certainly doesn't feel blisteringly quick with 215bhp so it sounds like serious fun (but it's a different matter through the corners!).

Oh and don't knock those go faster dents, my car sports many and I swear by their performance enhancing benefits []

Best regards,
Peter

 

[dixhuit]

Peter et al,
Didnt make that mistake in the budget !!! TOO OLD FOR THAT.
Goodwood Private family memorial track day May 29th
Castle Coombe 9/8 , 20/9 and 3/11 (nearest to me ) all paid for.

This car had been sitting at my Specialist for the last year or so.Prior to that it had been stored in the owners wharehouse down here in the South West. Ill health meant he finally accepted an offer from me for the car. It came with paperwork from Protech and a bill for supply and installation of just under £4000 (ouch) and a dyno sheet.
I thought I had heard of them and watching the World Rally on Sky a few weeks ago saw one of the front runners " pepared by Protech Engineering". I will see if I can find the address and more info over the weekend from the invoices for you
My Specialist who is well respected down here had told me about the car some time ago. He had been doing work on it for quite a while and said it was a very professional installation, Oil cooler and modified air box included. The mechanics and chassis were A1. It had been standing for years and been hit by a forklift in the owners wharehouse. A silly offer was made and deal done..
So its been a question of replacing old bits (fuel was at least 6 yrs old in tank !) and getting it sorted as a track day special .It had standard seats/wheels/tyres etc.now all upgraded.
As you can see from my list of Porsches Ive had a few , even a 997 2S but nothing like this !! My lady has an S2 with a couple of mods and this leaves it standing. Its acceleration is stupendous. It will run out of top speed around 130 because of the standard gearbox . The brakes will need to be upgraded as they are standard Lux but Ive got a pair of S2 calipers for a quick fix
So I like the idea of a short shift and lexan/fibreglass weight reduction.
Next years budget ![]

 

[dlknight]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson



Neil, I'd recommend getting rid of that ATE Blue as soon as you can, it's way out of its depth on track (and not great on the road either on my car). I'd suggest Castrol Response or SRF for a massive improvement in performance and feel.

Hi Peter,

Is ATE Blue really that bad ? I put it in my 944S about a year and a half ago and it totally transformed the pedal feel and braking response. Its almost due another change so I was thinking of trying something different (especially colour so I can tell when it has flushed through). My colleague who does hill climbs in a Reliant Scimitar suggested AP Racing 600 brake fluid as he reckons its the dogs danglies []

Cheers

Dave K.

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks Simon, sounds like a great car, can't wait to see it in action. Any chance you could post the dyno plot that came with the car? I'd be very interested to see the shape of the curve. £4,000 for the install and rebuild sounds a very good price to me.

Dave, I'd definately recommend trying something else on the next change, I'm sure ATE is better than standard but I think our cars can put too much heat through their brakes for it, it will easily boil and even with regular bleeding the pedal feel just isn't solid enough. I know I'm not the only 944 owner to feel the same, John raved about the SRF, and as soon as I got it I haven't looked back. I used to use the cheaper Response one and that seemed far superior too, so for mostly road use that could be the one to buy (I was also told on good authority that it was less hydroscopic than SRF so didn't need to be changed as regularly, but I haven't been able to find proof of that).

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Diver944]

.....and on the other side of the coin I'm more than happy with ATE Blue. LIL has done 3 trackdays with it so far this year without problems. Previously I'd always used bog standard Dot4 without problems (but I do bleed a little out every few trackdays and change it totally at least once a year)

 

[dixhuit]

Peter
Will try and post the dyno info after the weekend. I dont have a computor at home so everything is done from my office during the week. I like some peace and quiet at home !!

Just off to pick the car up new exhaust arrived and now fitted. A few other worn and old parts which expired after last weeks shakedown have been replaced. It needs some mileage and drive time on it. So its Cornwall for a long run and twisty roads this weekend. Hopefully the trip wont throw up any more gremlins and then it back to the Specialist for final checks before picking it up next weekend for Goodwood in anger[]

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

.....and on the other side of the coin I'm more than happy with ATE Blue.

Yes but that's just because you simply set the thrusters to reverse when you get to a corner... []

In that case I suspect the difference may more obvious for those of us with earlier cars. Brake cooling seemed to be something they improved both with the scoops on the Turbo's (which I guess weren't fitted by the factory on S2's) and the way the airflow is managed at the front end on both the S2 and turbo, but it's just a theory...

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: dixhuit

Peter
Will try and post the dyno info after the weekend. I dont have a computor at home so everything is done from my office during the week. I like some peace and quiet at home !!

Just off to pick the car up new exhaust arrived and now fitted. A few other worn and old parts which expired after last weeks shakedown have been replaced. It needs some mileage and drive time on it. So its Cornwall for a long run and twisty roads this weekend. Hopefully the trip wont throw up any more gremlins and then it back to the Specialist for final checks before picking it up next weekend for Goodwood in anger[]

Thanks Simon. Getting a car back up to speed after a long lay off can be a nightmare, I hope you've got to the bottom of everything and can enjoy a full day at Goodwood.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

.....and on the other side of the coin I'm more than happy with ATE Blue. LIL has done 3 trackdays with it so far this year without problems. Previously I'd always used bog standard Dot4 without problems (but I do bleed a little out every few trackdays and change it totally at least once a year)

EBC BF 307......Boiled that. (Dry boiling point 307 ºC wet boiling point 196ºC)

ATE Blue.....Boiled that

ATE Super Blue......Not tried that but with 280ºC Dry and 198ºC wet so I would boil it any way.

AP Racing 551 ... Boiled that (Dry boiling point 275ºC)

SRF....not boiled that yet (wet boiling point 263ºC) It is viciously expensive - but not if you aren't constantly bleeding your system.

Apparently....

"Castrol SRF Racing Brake Fluid is an ultra high performance product formulated specifically to satisfy the ever increasing stresses placed upon the braking systems used in international motorsport. The exceptional performance of Castrol SRF is due to a novel silicon ester technology pioneered by Castrol and unique to the extent that it has been granted patent-protection in numerous countries throughout the world."

In fairness the SRF is in Big Blacks with Red Stuff pads while all the others have been in Medium Blacks with Textar Pads. I did turn the discs very blue though.

 

[Hilux]

EBC BF 307......Boiled that. (Dry boiling point 307 ºC wet boiling point 196ºC)

ATE Blue.....Boiled that

ATE Super Blue......Not tried that but with 280ºC Dry and 198ºC wet so I would boil it any way.

AP Racing 551 ... Boiled that (Dry boiling point 275ºC)

SRF....not boiled that yet (wet boiling point 263ºC) It is viciously expensive - but not if you aren't constantly bleeding your system.

[8D]

You`re still driving it like your old Westy like me .....................

c`mon admit it.................................

 

[sawood12]

Sounds like i'm such a wuss when it comes to braking!! My mission when next out on track is to boil my ATE Super Blue!!

 

[944Turbo]

I used to use castrol synthetic dot 5.1 from halfords but then swapped to halfords 5.1 (bottle looks the same in a different colour) changed 18monthly not had any issues with it. It does expand when very hot though - it overflowed out of the top of the resovoir at the ring - the performance didnt really change though. Having said that though I dont think I am that hard on the brakes but I did also have 4 blue discs at Donny.
Tony

PS Donny also stopped my yellows from squealing.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

You`re still driving it like your old Westy like me .....................

c`mon admit it.................................

Guilty as charged [] .

I have worked out how to stop the fluid boiling though.........swap to skinny cross ply tyres. []

 

[chrisg]

Chaps

a little late joining the thread, however, I'd thoroughly recommend the AP600 - I've used in for years both in the Turbo and previously in the S2 and an M5 E34 - never had any problems at all and at ~ £12 per litre its not prohibitively expensive.

C