random hero
New member
Im a right in thinking that the 250 turbo has bigger brakes than the 220 model or is this only on the m030 option that is bigger. and is there any difference with the mo30 front suspension between the 944 and 968 ??
Turbo Front brakes
- Thread starter random hero
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random hero
New member
Do the hubs need to be changed in order to fit the 250 brakes onto the 220 ??
sawood12
New member
The 250 turbo brakes are the same as the M030 brakes which were carried over from the 928S4. The 220 turbo model has the same brakes as the S2. I'm sure you know that unless you change your hubs and spindles you will need caliper adaptors to fit the 250turbo brakes. I've got these for my Big Blacks and they work fine although I had to hacksaw off my disc plate that is fitted behind the disc as it fouls with the disc. I originally started looking for the 250 turbo brakes but found that by the time you got a decent pair and maybe got them reconditioned you are looking at spending not far off the cost of new Big Black calipers which cost about £350 per caliper although Exeter OPC currenlty have stock of the caliper from one side going for £200, so you are looking at £550 for a pair of Big Black calipers brand new. That is roughly what you'd pay for a 2nd hand pair of 250 turbo calipers off ebay and they'd be old, maybe with a bit of caliper plate lift and a few scratches on the face of the caliper. The fact that I went to the states with work meant I had the opportunity to buy the upgrade kit for the same price in $ as £ so I ended up getting my kit pretty cheap!!
There isn't much difference between the surface area of the 250 turbo caliper brake pad and the big black - the big black is a bit bigger, but the big blacks have larger piston diameters which means you can get more sensitivity.
I think the 968 M030 suspension is different than the 944. Not sure how but on the basis the rear suspension is very different the front must also be different to maintain the balance between the front and rear.
Sounds like you've got a little project in mind!!
There isn't much difference between the surface area of the 250 turbo caliper brake pad and the big black - the big black is a bit bigger, but the big blacks have larger piston diameters which means you can get more sensitivity.
I think the 968 M030 suspension is different than the 944. Not sure how but on the basis the rear suspension is very different the front must also be different to maintain the balance between the front and rear.
Sounds like you've got a little project in mind!!
Diver944
Active member
EDH on the forum still has a brand new unfitted set of Big Black callipers for sale at the bargain price of £470 advertsied in our 'Parts for Sale' thread
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=187068&mpage=2&key=
random hero
New member
Ive been offered some 944 m030's which just need top mounts,im toying with the idea of bigger brakes but trying to work out if the cost and time involved is worth it or not as i'm more than happy with the standard brakes but saying that i havent put the car on a track yet. Another option is to put some decent pads in and a set of drilled or groved discs on the standard calipers ???
sawood12
New member
If your current brakes are in good nick - i.e. no caliper plate lift and piston seals in good nick then you have a pretty good brake setup indeed even with standard discs and pads. I went for the upgrade because I just fancied tinkering and decided I wanted to do more track days and may as well have the extra thermal capacity of the big blacks than not. They don't half look good behind the wheels though! I fear i'm not getting the full benefit of the upgrade though due to my ageing soft suspension. But that will be sorted out fairly soon!
In terms of costs to upgrade, in addition to the calipers you are looking at about £150 for the discs, about £90 for the adaptor brackets and about £90 for the brake pads. You might as well upgrade to SS braided hoses while you are at it which are £40 for the front and rears.
In terms of costs to upgrade, in addition to the calipers you are looking at about £150 for the discs, about £90 for the adaptor brackets and about £90 for the brake pads. You might as well upgrade to SS braided hoses while you are at it which are £40 for the front and rears.
random hero
New member
Either way i will be putting ss braided hoses on,my calipers are fine apart from the could do with a repaint which can wait for now,i fancy the m030 suspension but im quite happy with the koni m474's that i already have but again not been on a track with them. The only thing ive made my mind up about is the air filter ,ive decieded not to go with an induction kit and fit a k&n replacement panel filter instead which im picking up from 9m tomorrow !!
Hilux
New member
Nah, not if you`ve driven KW V3 suspended cars [
] Makes the Mo30 feel like a 2CV [&:]If you are thinking of changing it then you can learn from experience on this forum and `tweak` it without spending loads IMO
Mo30 front struts are adjustable for height and damping force but so are a lot of other alternatives and the rears (on mine at least appear to be non adjustable Sachs?)
Still they`ll all be gone soon [8D]
Re callipers, There are a number of companies that for not a lot of money will make calliper adapter blocks. In theory you can put what callipers you like on the car. You simply need to understand their relationship with the porsche calliper mount holes and the disc.
There are some serious lightweight callipers out there that are easily adapted I would have thought. Note however that the Mo30 (928) `Blacks` should be more than adequate unless you are racing however I consider that a bigger piston surface area and pad is better at dissipating heat (or will not get quite so hot) so is a worthy upgrade.
Not now he hasn't 'cos they'll be going on Beaky. [
[&o][&o][&o] Not jealous I missed them honest
Mine if they are free (or cheap) [8D] I need some better tyres for trackin`
sawood12
New member
I was under the impression that M474's were basically non-adjustable M030's. If this is correct then there is little point in replacing M474's with M030 unless you want the adjustability. As Hilux has said due long and relentless march of progress means that there are now many aftermarket suspension systems available that are superior to M030 and can be had and installed for around the same sort of money than it would cost to upgrade to M030. I would say that if you intend to track the car then an aftermarket set up will be far more rewarding on track, if you don't intend to track your car your M474 is probably perfectly adequate for road use.
250 turbo calipers fit under 16" alloys. Big Blacks are supposed to require 17" rims or more but according to Porschapart the space saver spare wheel on the 928GTS and 993TT are 16" wheels so i'm now confused!! I keep on meaning to try my 944 spare wheel over the Big Blacks but the recent weather has not been conducive to messing around with cars. I don't think i've got half an inch clearance between my Big Blacks and the inside of my 17" rims so i'm not convinced.
250 turbo calipers fit under 16" alloys. Big Blacks are supposed to require 17" rims or more but according to Porschapart the space saver spare wheel on the 928GTS and 993TT are 16" wheels so i'm now confused!! I keep on meaning to try my 944 spare wheel over the Big Blacks but the recent weather has not been conducive to messing around with cars. I don't think i've got half an inch clearance between my Big Blacks and the inside of my 17" rims so i'm not convinced.
random hero
New member
I was under the same impression that the m474's were the same as M030's as well (apart from hight adj),can anyone confirm this ??? Im on avery limited budjet due to kitchen units and the need for a new "familly car" so i cant afford to streach to new suspension but the m030's were for sale by a local man very cheap, but if the ride is the same as mine im not gaining anything as i already have uprated and lowered springs and can't go any lower on my 18's anyway !! Im still in two minds what do do about calipers , but at least i have my nice new k&n filter courtesy of 9M !!!
sawood12
New member
Fen suggested that when I queried this some time ago. To be honest I thought he was pulling my leg! I can't imagine i'd have much of a turning circle with one of my 255's up front which was why I was trying to source a 17" space saver. I was watching a VW/Audi space saver on ebay a while back since they are 18" but Fen alerted me to the fact they are a different PCD so that scuppered that plan. I suppose I could by another 17" Boxster alloy as a spare but I like the idea of the more modern and lighter space savers.
blade7
Well-known member
I've never been thrilled with the standard 928 brakes, despite replacing the discs and using Textar pads. The last time I looked, there didn't appear to be any plate lift, but they've always felt a bit wooden. I've seen vendors asking silly money for the adapters and centre rings, required to run the cheaper, bigger late discs and calipers too.
scam75
Well-known member
Standard discs (ECP Pagid, cheap) and Textar pads is the best combo I've found (performance and value for money). They do feel a bit "old school" but work pretty good. Under no circumstances buy ECP Pagid, cheap, pads. Unless you like to hear very disturbed, burning pigs...................
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