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Turbo in need of a new clutch

J

jon

New member
Hi guys,

I have an '86 Turbo with a very juddery and heavy clutch.

The car has done approx 70,000 miles and while I have alot of good documentation with the car there is no mention of a clutch change in its past.

I have read a few different forums and articles relating to the particular type of clutch that Porsche fit and have even heard people say that they would not fit the standard replacement and would only consider an 'uprated' relacement. While the clutch was being changed I wondered if there was any other parts that I should consider changing. I thought I would get the master and slave cylinders changed and have the gearbox linkage looked at.

I wondered if anybody had any views on a particular type I should consider and who I should consider having the clutch fitted. I live in St.Ives, Cambs and was considering approaching TWG Motorsports in Peterborough.

Many thanks,

Jon

 
Drive the car gently untill you do get a new clutch. The 944 clutch has a rubber centre and judder (and eventually heavy gearchange) are signs the rubber is breaking up. With care you may be able to drive it for a few months, but no high rev gear changes and no fast launches until the clutch is changed. Be warned its a big job, they have to drop the exhaust, drive shafts, gearbox, then torque tube just to get at the clutch bellhousing.
 
The standard clutch is more than up to the job and should have a nice and light action. My own Turbo has the Turbo Cup clutch which was a motorsport item, but my car makes nearly 400bhp. It is still very light and easy to use for all driving conditions.

Some people have fitted fairly exotic aftermarket clutches but nearly all have complained about a heavy pedal, vicious biting point and lots of judder unless you drop the cluch at high revs. This calms down after the clutch has bedded in after several thousand miles so it's up to you exactly what you want out of it
 
Thanks for that.

I have to say, one of the things I wanted to avoid was a heavy clutch action. At the moment the car is fairly unpleasent to drive and I would like the 'mrs. to be' to be able to have a go in it. At the moment I think she would struggle.

The car is in reasonable shape and (so far as I can tell) standard. So, the standard clutch does sound the way to go.

If I get some quotes is there anything that a competant shop should suggest changing as a matter of course or might suggest upgrading?
 
ORIGINAL: jon



I have to say, one of the things I wanted to avoid was a heavy clutch action. At the moment the car is fairly unpleasent to drive and I would like the 'mrs. to be' to be able to have a go in it. At the moment I think she would struggle.
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jon I don't have any advise for you I'm afraid, but let us know how you get on as mine is quite heavy (but no judder) and I too think it would put my mrs off driving it.
Having said that, I won't be spending over a grand for the sake of it! I read somewhere that it is rare for a 944 clutch to slip, they are normaly changed because they become heavy.
 
I realised that changing the clutch wasn't gonna be a cheap exercise which is why I thought about getting some advise first.

The clutch doesn't slip at the moment but I find it does need plenty of revs to pull away anything like smoothly and i've noticed that there is some slight vibration in between changing gear on the move, all of which, I figured, is probably putting extra strain on the rest of the transmission.

I have been in contact with Andy at Promax ( http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/ )in Milton Keynes who also suggested that the standard clutch (a sachs item) is more than up to the job. I intend to meet up with him on Friday to discuss a suitable plan of action.

If anyone is interested I'll keep you posted on how we get on.
 
ORIGINAL: jon

I have been in contact with Andy at Promax http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/ in Milton Keynes who also suggested that the standard clutch (a sachs item) is more than up to the job. I intend to meet up with him on Friday to discuss a suitable plan of action.
Click to expand...

My understanding from one website is that Sachs now only supply the far better design with a conventional spring centre plate and that no-one fits the older rubber design that is prone to splitting apart ???

Can anyone supply me with (costs covered of course - plus a beer voucher or two [:D] ) a discarded used/worn 225mm spring centre plate from under their workbench so that I can investigate getting it re-lined with a heavy-duty lining ?
 
Just a quick update for anyone who is keeping a eye on this.

My car is booked in with Promax early next month so it will be a while before I can report more.

I have to say that the guys there seemed very knowledgable and I feel confident they will be able to do the job.

Andy took me for a blast in his 994T with their 'stage 2' kit and it certainly opened my eyes as to what these cars can produce with what seem very small mods. My only concern would be, reliability, but, I guess it shows what's possible.

Anyway, thats for later. First job...to get it running well as standard!
 
I don't think the turbo clutch has the rubber centre that the S2 clutch has so doesn't suffer from the breakup issue. It is a different unit. The turbo clutch is heavy anyway and although mine isn't juddery it has a slight notchy feel to it. I was worried it was on it's way out so got my specialist to have a good look, and although there is no inspection port as such he seemed to think it didn't particularly look on it's last legs. He advised that I just keep driving it until it starts slipping unless I have some other work done to the car where the oppourtunity presents itself to replace. The clutch kit is about £350.

A weakness in the turbo clutch is the small springs on the pressure plate. These can break up and has been the cause for clutch replacement rather than wear. It was these failures that gave the turbo clutch a bad name but I blieve Porsche beefed these up at some stage as the early turbo's have three springs but the later cars have 4, but other than that it seems the stock clutch is more than upto the task. My car had a clutch replaced at 40k miles and it has since covered another 80k and the clutch appears to be going strong so they must have beefed them up.

The job is definately time consuming. The rear transaxel has to be dropped so the torque tube can be slid back to expose the clutch. This all takes time and costs labour. Other than that the clutch replacement would be no different as any other clutch - they're pretty simple mechanisms at the end of the day. Shame Porsche didn't have the foresight to use the 968 torque tube design on the 944. Apparently this has a panel that allows the clutch to be accessed and removed without having to slide the torque tube back thereby cutting the amount of labour by about 40%. So if anyone has to replace their torque tubes try to source a 968 item. They bolt straight up to a 944 block and transaxel no probs.

By the way +1 from me on Promax. I've used them for my modding jobs. Great bunch of guys, very knowledgable and are happy to stand around and indulge you in talking Porsches. I'd use them more if they were a bit closer.
 
Just thought would post a note to let a few of you know how things have gone.

The old clutch was about 85% worn and just starting to munch the rivets. It seems we caught it just in time and no lasting damage was done to the flywheel. Just a quick clean up. On reassembling only a sheared exhaust stud gave the guys any grief and the complete job was done in 7.5 hours!

While they had the car I asked the guys to check the condition of the engine mounts as I suspected they were still the originals. This proved to be the case and were changed for the later hydraulic type.

I asked the guys at promax to then check the car over and was advised that there were some brake issues that needed looking at and a worn suspention bush on the front anti toll bar.

So new pads, discs, pipes and bushes were fitted together with a full set of braided s/steel flexible hoses.

After that lot the guys did a leakdown test on the engine and found everything to be ok (all between 120 and 130 psi) with less than 5% leakage.

With the engine found to be in decent nick for a 70,000 mile example I asked promax to fit a new set of vacumn hoses; an ignition kit and K&N replacement panel filter.

I picked up the car today and the transformation is simply astonishing. I'm trying to go easy while everything beds in but, my god, it really does drive like a new car. This is my first Porsche so I hadn't got anything to judge it by when I bought it but I now know what they should be like. The new clutch (std. sachs) is light and a complete joy to use. Gone are any of the nasty vibes leaving just a silky smooth take up.

Performance is now crisp with little noticable lag and the brakes are nicely weighted with a nice bite. Something that I'm sure will improve with a few more miles.

I was pleased with the car before now I can't wait to go for a thrash. Sods law, it will piss down for the rest of the weekend. I will not be denied though!

Can't find anything to fault the guys at Promax. Superb.
 
Great result Jon.

We all hate landing a big bill but when it brings a night and day difference afterwards you know it's well worth it [:)]
 
Jon,really nice to hear your great experience and that you are pleased with your car now, earlier on you mentioned reliability worries with tuning the car,the guys(Andy and Roger) who did your car also have fettled my two turbos,one car just a bit, the other car tuned fairly extensively what i am trying to get over is if you have a hankering to tweak your car go for it these cars are as tough as old boots![:)]
Hope you get some good dry weather to drive your car!
MarkK
 
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