Turbo suspension

[steve 944t]

I would like to freshen up the suspension on my Turbo S . Currently the rear of the car gets quite unsettled over bumps. I imagine this is partly due to the fairly hard MO30 shocks, but with 90k miles on them I feel they are due for replacement.
In addition I intend to fit the 968 front castor mounts, which hopefully will tighten up the front a little bit (I am keeping to the 16 inch rims though) . Following this I will go for a proper 4 wheel alignment.
So, is there anything else I should think about replacing (apart from the front shocks) before getting the alignment done?
Also, will the new MO30 rear shocks come set to standard settings?

My overall intention is to keep the suspension standard, so I dont want to change to Leda and whilst I do intend to do a few trackdays, the car is mainly for road use.

Any comments appreciated

Steve

 

[944Turbo]

If the rears have gone a bit soft why not try adjusting them first before splashing out on a new set?


Tony

 

[Guest]

I am thinking along the same lines, the price of the rear shocks right now makes them worth buying. Shame thats they are not as easily adjustable as the fronts. I am mostly on the road too. The LEDA set up looks good mind.

 

[steve 944t]

Cheers Tony. I am in 2 minds about that. My initial thought was to do just that - the problem with the rear is that when it hits a bump, the suspension is slow to react, so that when you hit the next bump it is still rebounding. So adjusting the shock should improve matters. On the other hand, 90k miles is quite a lot for what I assume are the original shocks and I wonder whether the rubbers in the mounts are a bit tired. And at approx £70 per side they are not too expensive.

 

[richthomas]

You could also try replacing the antiroll bar bushes, I've heard replacing the rear ones especially tightens up the handling after around 100k. I'm going to look into doing this soon, but don't know how much they are yet or how hard it is to do. The fronts are fairly resonable in price though, (about £20-£30 each side IIRC) and seem easy enough to do so should be worth a go. I suppose repacing the rear trailing arm bushes should give a noticable improvement too, but they look a little more involved to do yourself.

At the front there isn't a whole lot, the castor mounts you mention, there are some bushes pressed into the A arms for the front mount, and the rubber strut top mount. The Top mounts are very expensive, around £400 each, and of course you need to remove the strut to replace them. I would also check your A arm ball joints for play and steering tie rods, as any slack here will be noticable in the handling. A few places are now selling balljoint repair kits (not sure how good these are though) and reconitioned units on an exchange basis, or you could stump up the £500[:-] for a brand new one from Porsche.

If you replace all that lot, and the dampers, and go for an alignment everything should be sorted [8D](which is mostly what I am going to when I get enough money together[])

Rich

 

[steve 944t]

Thanks Rich. I'll look into the items you've mentioned. The ARB bushes certainly sound like a good idea.
I think I will replace the rear shocks first and see what effect that has, as this will not affect the alignment at all (someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong![8D])
I can then save some pennies and replace all the other items in one go, followed by the alignment. Hopefully this should produce some noticeable improvement, although the car does not handle badly at all at the moment.

Steve

 

[Diver944]

I had mine rebuilt by the Koni agent in Brackley (Sportsline Suspension 01280 702633 ) and they charged £100 per strut and £100 to remove and refit including alignment. It was a night and day difference and were much firmer but they are still nowhere near as good as damping on poor surfaces as the KW.

This does not include the rear shocks but I had new ones shocks fitted shortly beforehand and they were a bargain at £80 each from the OPC

 

[bennyboy]

So you must be well placed to judge Paul, having had both set-ups. From what you say then, I may notice the difference between rebuilt M030 and KW3 on the road, but on smooth surfaces (like a track), it would be difficult to justify the extra £1000 cost?!

 

[Diver944]

Yes I agree, it is all down to how you want to use it. Fresh M030 is a much firmer system than most and you will feel the bumps on poor surfaces though the adjustability does make a noticeable difference. Hard track use still has it leaning like a barge when you corner hard on sticky tyres and that's when you remember you have a 1400kg car under you.

The KW3 is a totally modern design and has far stiffer spring rates than M030 with much more adjustability. However, even though it is much, much stiffer it is still able to soak up the bumps on the road with ease. It has a high speed bypass valve which opens wen you hit a bump and softens up the shock. On a smooth surface it remains rock hard with minimal lean when throwing it around a corner. On poor surfaces it is compliant and comfortable and much softer than M030 - it really is the best of both worlds.

Once my finances recover from my latest repair I shall be throwing on a set of KW3s as soon as possible [8D]

 

[sawood12]

I think if you drove a refreshed M030 car back to back with a KW equipped car then the difference would be night and day. M030 is 20+ yr old technology now and even refreshed will have an altogether different feel and it will feel dated compared with the modern presice control we've become used to in modern cars - which may very well be what you're after. Yes the M030 refresh option is cheaper and will give you a noticeable improvement - and M030 is more than good enough for the road and fast road driving - however for the track and/or if you are after that precise modern feel then you will need a more modern - and expensive, system.

Also when you are refreshing your M030 don't forget about bushes - the chances are they have never been replaced and will be way past their best.

I love the KW. Although it still soaks up the bumps it is probably too stiff for many, though I love the feel of the car, the control of the body - no more rolling around and squatting and diving under acceleration and braking, and more traction. You can get on the throttle much earlier, the car is far more stable mid-corner - it just feels amazing. It is very expensive and to spend 50% of the cars value doesn't necessarily feel right initially- but the way I look at it, it cost me not that much more than my brothers mountain bike and this is my hobby - and it will last 20yrs, which is more than I can say for my brothers mountain bike. He's already spying his next mountain bike 18months down the line and it will cost more than my KW installation - aluminium is so yesterday - the future is Carbon fibre apparently.

 

[MarkK]

The KW sounds amazing would love a passenger ride at some point,whats it like refinement-wise any noises creaks,squeaks?Is it comfortable enough for everyday??

 

[appletonn]

I had the good fortune to have some passenger laps round Oulton Park in Frazer's supercharged and KW equipped 968CS last weekend.

The handling and balance and grip (on road tyres) was sensational with very little roll, but then when we slowed down to come into the pits and trundled over some bumps and lumpy tarmac, the ride was better than my Bilstein equipped car.

Very impressed was I, errrm sorry must have turned into someone from Star Wars for a second... []

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: MarkK

Is it comfortable enough for everyday??

Definately. The ones I have been in feel softer on the road but stiffer at the same time [&:]

You can of course specify whatever spring rate you want but I think that the standard package is rated around the 300lb mark which is nearly twice that of the M030 (I plucked that number out of thin air so someone with the kit might correct me [])

 

[steve 944t]

ORIGINAL: MarkK

The KW sounds amazing would love a passenger ride at some point,whats it like refinement-wise any noises creaks,squeaks?Is it comfortable enough for everyday??

For every day driving my KW is way better than the (admittedly tired) M030 it replaced. No creaks or squeaks whatsoever and rides far better over bumps. It is somehow softer but firmer [:-]. I have not got round to changing the settings since my last trackday so it is set very hard, especially at the back, which can cause it to skip occasionally over bad surfaces, but no worse than before. At least with the KW it is very easy to adjust the back - with the M030 you really need to remove them to adjust.
Mark ( or anyone else for that matter) - very happy to give you a passenger ride on track some time. My first outing is likely to be the Silverstone evening on 23rd May

 

[zcacogp]

I had a similar debate about my non-M030 equipped S2 last year. Lesser spec to start with, but equally tired suspension.

I couldn't justify the cost of the KW kit, delicious as it seemed.

I ended up going for the Koni option, with top-adjustable inserts in the front struts and new rear struts. I retained the springs all 'round, but changed all the bushes and the tie rods on the steering.

The difference was impressive, and it is quite comfortable enough to use as a daily driver, on the UK-spec roads, including mandatory holes and speedbumps. It is probably not as good in ultimate handling terms as the KW, but did cost a LOT less (just under £700 all in, including full alignment.)

Just another option for you to consider ...


Oli.,

 

[Hilux]

The KW sounds amazing would love a passenger ride at some point,whats it like refinement-wise any noises creaks,squeaks?Is it comfortable enough for everyday??

I have KWV3 and Weltmeister ARB`s and am at Front runner in April. Happy to demo and if you`re insured you can have a go. You WILL notice the difference believe me. Once tested its on your want list.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Hilux
You WILL notice the difference believe me. Once tested its on your want list.

*WARNING* Do NOT drive this car - it will be an expensive experience! []

(One of the reasons that I decline drives from friends with better cars than me - it only makes me think that my car is dreadful when I get back into it!)


Oli.

(P.S. Of course, this doesn't stop me from driving 951's. [] )

 

[bennyboy]

Thanks for your thoughts guys - I think I've resigned myself to not eating for the next 12 months until I can afford the KW kit. I'm quite happy with the M030 at the moment, but when I've got a cage and race seats in, and I've given up footy to get my weekends back (i.e. go to track days, just don't tell the wife), the KW kit will be a welcome addition. Might as well get the best available as I plan to keep the car for a long time.

PS Got my rubbing tyre fixed. Took it to Zentrum (great service) and now running -1 degrees camber on both rear wheels. Feels great on nice roads too, and nice and fidgity on not so nice roads!

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: Hilux
You WILL notice the difference believe me. Once tested its on your want list.

*WARNING* Do NOT drive this car - it will be an expensive experience! []

(One of the reasons that I decline drives from friends with better cars than me - it only makes me think that my car is dreadful when I get back into it!)


Oli.

(P.S. Of course, this doesn't stop me from driving 951's. [] )

Oli, leave it ....! [][][]

 

[sawood12]

Mine creaks a bit (though doesn't squeak) but I did also fit solid top mounts and specified the phospher bronze bushes on the control arm bush so that is where the creaking comes from.