Turbo Tuning & Body repairs

[PhilKent]

Looking for any advice, suggestions wrt tuning and some rust repair following the Rutland meet, it's got me re-motivated to tinker a bit more with the car...
Pete, is it the M-tune system you've got fitted? Did you get that from Linsdey Racing or a UK source? I'm thinking of either this M-tune system, or the Augtronic system, but I'm slightly nervous about replacing the entire ECU effectively..?

On the rust front I want to get my front and rear lower wing sections repaired properly, having looked at the car the sills don't appear to have any visible signs of corrosion, but again I need a pro to evaluate and make good. After a couple of minor repairs way back in 2008 and again last year for the MOT it's time to get the job done right ( I was disgusted with the work done for the MOT last year, a real cowboy effort, my fualt of course, but I was 'in a rush'). Again thinking of trusting her to Berlyn/Augment but can anyone suggest a more local expert they would recommend? (I'm in Farnham, Surrey).
Hopefully I'll be going to go visit Augment next week for a chat...
Cheers all,
Phil.
PS the Car Iconics visit was a great end to the Rutland meet. A great bunch of cars and real enthusiasts looking after them...

 

[PSH]

Hi Phil

I'm neither...my setup is using Vitesse's well proven MAF+ system, to date I've not heard anything bad about John's (Vitesse) gear, a very much plug and play setup that works first time from idle up. If you add the 'piggyback' addon you can fine tune the engine further using a laptop (software supplied by John)on a dyno using someone like Wayne Schofield. I've been using Vitesse for over 10 years now, first with the V-MAF (MAF only) and now with the later upgrade to V-MAF+ which includes a MAP sensor for ignition tuning. One big advantage of the upgrade, other than ignition tuning is full control of boost through the ECU, you can now set an 'overboost' safety which you couldn't before.
I have no experience of the two systems that you mention, I have heard of problems with setting up the M-Tune (Rogue) on various forums, I haven't looked into the issues to know what the problems have been, though.
Same goes for Augtronic, I have no experience of Tom's system, however if you were to choose between Rogue and Augment I would go with Augment, Tom was an active member on this forum, in fact he asked me at one point to use my new engine as a test bed for his then new system. I'm too happy with Vitesse to want to change now, I drive my car often without any problems and wish to keep it that way, not that I'm saying there would have been any with Tom. After 18 years of development, I don't want to start all over again with testing what does and what does not work, getting a bit old for that now...

The only downside with Vitesse is that it's based in the US and so if something goes wrong could be a bit problematic in sorting it out, I have no doubt though that John would sort any problems out asap, luckily I haven't had any problems in the 10 years that I've been using Vitesse.

Re the rust issues, I would suggest contacting 'classic car panels' for any new sections of metal that you may need, there's a lead time of a few weeks. Afraid I can't help with body shops near you, whoever you choose make sure they know the car's shape well, just as important as how good they are at doing the job in hand. Even though I used a Porsche specialist I still had issues, these were sorted out at no cost to me but it was a little frustrating. The front wings on our cars aren't a simple shape to work with, involving compound curves and need to be done correctly to look right. If someone says a 'couple of hours labours mate' be sure to get them to look more closely at the shape concerned, even when using prefabricated repair panels it takes time and a good eye ( make sure they use templates) to do the job as Porsche intended

Pete

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Can't add anything to that, thanks Peter!
Glad you had a good day Phil. Stephen and Dan did too.

 

[PhilKent]

Thanks for the detailed reply Pete, I have a bad memory! Following our chat I thought it was the vitesse system that was hard to get right and the M-tune that you used! I'll take a look at the vitesse system now too... I got it backwards somehow in my head...I'll try and find that panels company.

 

[924Srr27l]

Jon Mitchell JMG is only approx 1.5 hours from Farnham (In surrey)

Here's a link to their (part 1) 944 Turbo tuning guide:
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.php/menu-articles/articles-performance/item/177-tuningthe944turbopartone

R

 

[PSH]

Thanks for the detailed reply Pete, I have a bad memory! Following our chat I thought it was the vitesse system that was hard to get right and the M-tune that you used! I'll take a look at the vitesse system now too... I got it backwards somehow in my head...I'll try and find that panels company.

You're very welcome Phil....here's a link to the panel company....sorry for not giving it before. https://www.classiccarpartsandpanels.co.uk/product-category/porsche-body-panels/porsche-944/

Cheers

Pete

 

[944Turbo]

? I'm thinking of either this M-tune system, or the Augtronic system, but I'm slightly nervous about replacing the entire ECU effectively..?

Given that there have been some failures of the standard ECU this is not necessarily a bad thing, Unfortunately no experience myself though there was a forum user who was very pleased, and the development was detailed here in depth.
I do have vitesse MAF and piggyback in my coupe though (pre Augtronic availability) and happy with it.
Tony

 

[924Srr27l]

? I'm thinking of either this M-tune system, or the Augtronic system, but I'm slightly nervous about replacing the entire ECU effectively..?

Given that there have been some failures of the standard ECU this is not necessarily a bad thing, Unfortunately no experience myself though there was a forum user who was very pleased, and the development was detailed here in depth.
I do have vitesse MAF and piggyback in my coupe though (pre Augtronic availability) and happy with it.
Tony

I'm led to believe it's only (1) PCB that's replaced from the (2) in any original ECU ?
Otherwise I'm sure they would of made a new complete replacement & box if their hardware was a total replacement.

The Augment ECU Upgrade is designed to provide adjust-ability which a Generic Chip cannot offer,

However another much cheaper alternative is to book a day with Wayne Schofield who has developed hard & Software to "Live" map the old 924s & 944's Bosch Motronic ECU's and rolling road your 944 turbo Phil[/b], without any changed components (Ignition and Fueling) a Tailored tune will give you more bhp & Torque.

R

 

[PSH]

? I'm thinking of either this M-tune system, or the Augtronic system, but I'm slightly nervous about replacing the entire ECU effectively..?

Given that there have been some failures of the standard ECU this is not necessarily a bad thing, Unfortunately no experience myself though there was a forum user who was very pleased, and the development was detailed here in depth.
I do have vitesse MAF and piggyback in my coupe though (pre Augtronic availability) and happy with it.
Tony

I'm led to believe it's only (1) PCB that's replaced from the (2) in any original ECU ?
Otherwise I'm sure they would of made a new complete replacement & box if their hardware was a total replacement.

The Augment ECU Upgrade is designed to provide adjust-ability which a Generic Chip cannot offer,

However another much cheaper alternative is to book a day with Wayne Schofield who has developed hard & Software to "Live" map the old 924s & 944's Bosch Motronic ECU's and rolling road your 944 turbo Phil, without any changed components (Ignition and Fueling) a Tailored tune will give you more bhp & Torque.

R

Phil is a little past that stage Roger being a member of the original 'dyno day' groupies....I agree though that for any further tuning, Wayne is the man to see

Pete

 

[924Srr27l]

Phil is a little past that stage Roger being a member of the original 'dyno day' groupies....I agree though that for any further tuning, Wayne is the man to see
Pete

I wasn't sure what stage, or what power is required, Can the Bosch ECU and stock Ignition be tuned to 350bhp+?

R

 

[PSH]

yes...and more

Pete

 

[944Turbo]

? I'm thinking of either this M-tune system, or the Augtronic system, but I'm slightly nervous about replacing the entire ECU effectively..?

Given that there have been some failures of the standard ECU this is not necessarily a bad thing, Unfortunately no experience myself though there was a forum user who was very pleased, and the development was detailed here in depth.
I do have vitesse MAF and piggyback in my coupe though (pre Augtronic availability) and happy with it.
Tony

I'm led to believe it's only (1) PCB that's replaced from the (2) in any original ECU ?
Otherwise I'm sure they would of made a new complete replacement & box if their hardware was a total replacement.

The Augment ECU Upgrade is designed to provide adjust-ability which a Generic Chip cannot offer,

However another much cheaper alternative is to book a day with Wayne Schofield who has developed hard & Software to "Live" map the old 924s & 944's Bosch Motronic ECU's and rolling road your 944 turbo Phil, without any changed components (Ignition and Fueling) a Tailored tune will give you more bhp & Torque.

R

I believe it keeps the power supply board, (or you get a fully tested replacement) Part of the original aim was to provide a plug in replacement that operates without modifications to wiring loom etc. I suspect the origonal connectors / boxes are quite expensive to source.
Tony

 

[PhilKent]

Great comments guys and thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
I've contacted JMG for a chat about what they could do for me. Regards my current set-up and aspirations, I'm currently at about 290HP at the flywheel and so the stock VAF is well beyond it's limitations, and the injectors are struggling, mixture gets a bit too lean at the top end. So I'm either looking at a piggy back setup (with up-rated injectors and a MAF) or the Augtronic set-up . I'm really intrigued by the Augtronic system and appreciate it's not strictly an 'entire' ECU replacement, but it would be more difficult to reverse engineer back to stock (which isn't neccessarily an issue, but it feels a bit final!)

I had a look through all my documents the other day to try and remember what turbo I have fitted from LR, but the invoice just says 'turbo'! I've emails them to see if they can figure it out from their records, otherwise I'll have to see if there are some identification marks on the turbo itself. I'm guessing it's the Suiper48 turbo though as I wasn't after masses of power and didn't want to introduce lots more lag...

The other thing that is appealing about Augtronic is that Aug/Berlyn would be a 'one stop shop' for both the tuning and the rust repair.

I'll keep you posted on what happens next!

 

[924Srr27l]

yes...and more
Pete

I also meant all the stock items inc. AFM ?

R

 

[924Srr27l]

Great comments guys and thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
I've contacted JMG for a chat about what they could do for me. Regards my current set-up and aspirations, I'm currently at about 290HP at the flywheel and so the stock VAF is well beyond it's limitations, and the injectors are struggling, mixture gets a bit too lean at the top end. So I'm either looking at a piggy back setup (with up-rated injectors and a MAF) or the Augtronic set-up . I'm really intrigued by the Augtronic system and appreciate it's not strictly an 'entire' ECU replacement, but it would be more difficult to reverse engineer back to stock (which isn't neccessarily an issue, but it feels a bit final!)
I had a look through all my documents the other day to try and remember what turbo I have fitted from LR, but the invoice just says 'turbo'! I've emails them to see if they can figure it out from their records, otherwise I'll have to see if there are some identification marks on the turbo itself. I'm guessing it's the Suiper48 turbo though as I wasn't after masses of power and didn't want to introduce lots more lag...
The other thing that is appealing about Augtronic is that Aug/Berlyn would be a 'one stop shop' for both the tuning and the rust repair.
I'll keep you posted on what happens next!

- Do you mean your currently using the Bosch AFM ?
- Buy a 2nd hand ECU and then have this Modified by AA and keep your original for swapping back if you need to.
- I didn't realise AA now do bodywork, or is it sub contracted out ?
- LR should have documentation on the Turbo model, Sent Dave or Mike an Email they'll soon get back to you.

R

 

[PhilKent]

Yes, currently got the standard bosch AFM. I've thought about using a second hand ECU with AA...

 

[PhilKent]

AFAIK AA is part of Berlyn Services father and son set-up and they apparently do do bodywork!

 

[944Turbo]

Yes I think they bought out Bert from Berlyn when he retired, Tom, Barks944 used to post here
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=581016&high=barks
Tony

 

[TTM]

I cannot comment on the Augtronic but having used a Vitesse MAF in the past, I believe they are way overpriced these days and if I were to do it all over again I would go right away for a VEMS set up from Peep Padaam in Estonia.
It offers the flexibility and the power of a complete standalone ECU for a fraction of the price. It is actually even cheaper than a Vitesse MAF which is a very frustrating black box that won't allow you to do more than adjusting the fueling.

You can read more on the VEMS set up here :
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/844820-almost-finished-vems-plug-play-ecu-951-a.html

I run a Vi-PEC ECU which I enjoy very much but it was not cheap, and for value for money I would go right away for this VEMS set up if I were to move away from the Bosch Motronic again.
I am not affiliated to this guy but I have talked tuning with him at several occasions, he really knows his thing, has many satisfied customers and offers great support.
Great thing is that you do not have to butcher your engine harness which is required with the Vitesse MAF.

 

[PhilKent]

I cannot comment on the Augtronic but having used a Vitesse MAF in the past, I believe they are way overpriced these days and if I were to do it all over again I would go right away for a VEMS set up from Peep Padaam in Estonia.
It offers the flexibility and the power of a complete standalone ECU for a fraction of the price. It is actually even cheaper than a Vitesse MAF which is a very frustrating black box that won't allow you to do more than adjusting the fueling.

You can read more on the VEMS set up here :
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/844820-almost-finished-vems-plug-play-ecu-951-a.html

I run a Vi-PEC ECU which I enjoy very much but it was not cheap, and for value for money I would go right away for this VEMS set up if I were to move away from the Bosch Motronic again.
I am not affiliated to this guy but I have talked tuning with him at several occasions, he really knows his thing, has many satisfied customers and offers great support.
Great thing is that you do not have to butcher your engine harness which is required with the Vitesse MAF.

Now that's put the cat among the pigeons! This looks really interesting TTM thanks for sharing this. I really like the idea of a plug and play replacement so if it all went wrong I could just plug the old ECU back in. However, I have no real experience with tuning myself, so would be very cautious about plugging in a totally new ECU with a 'get you started' mode. Do you know of garages in the in Southern England that have worked with and set-up cars with these VEMS systems? I'm going to investigate this more and possibly speak with Peep Padaam. Would you be up for a chat first TTM?