Turbo versus GT 3

[bobfair]

Its now been over 3 months since I took delivery of my Gen 2 GT 3. I have done 1,600 miles including two track days and I have to say I love the car and smile every time I get into it or out of it. It is a very different car to my Turbo which I learned to love over 16,000 miles and 3 years and 15 or so track days including Silverstone Spa Le Mans and a 180MPH blast in Germany.

When I fist got the Turbo I was blown away by the brilliant acceleration which you just have to experience to believe and the Gen 2 with launch control is even better. However I was very dissapointed with the noise it made. It didnt sound like a sports car to me so I visted DMS and fitted a new exhaust which did improve the sound a little. The Turbo can flatter you like no other car. You can be very very fast without much skill even if you come out of a corner in the wrong gear that massive torque will sling shot you down the next straight. As a pure road car the Turbo is fantastic eating miles effortlessly. On a track the Turbo feels a little heavy which you notice most as you come into fast corners. Of course the brakes work well taking the speed off but you can feel that weight pushing forward with the brakes working hard and pad wear on track is high. Of course in the wet the car is untouchable with massive grip.

So whats the GT 3 like by comparison. You notice the differences as soon as you sit in the car. Press the clutch, its heavy, start the engine and it vibrates and ratlles and shakes. It has attitude compared to the Turbo that just sits there purring quietly. As the revs start to build a wonderful wall of noise starts to hit you. At 6,500 the Turbo hits the rev limiter in the GT 3 its just getting into its stride with 2,000 more revs to come. By now the engine is screaming at you. Orgasmic!!

The GT 3 lacks that wonderful torque and acceleration of the Turbo but it has many other qualities. Its much lighter and you really feel that when pushing on or braking hard. It changes direction so much better than the Turbo. Its like a big Go Kart and enormous fun to drive. However its not easy to drive fast. You have to concentrate and drive it properly to make it perform. It rewards skillfull input and punishes mistakes. There is no doubt that I am slower in my GT 3 than I was in my Turbo as I have not yet learnt to get the best out of it. The Turbo was easy to drive fast this car isnt there is so much to learn to make the car perform but when you do get it right it feels so good. I am still braking way to early in the GT 3 as the old brain is still locked into Turbo braking distances. You can brake much later and carry much more speed through the corner and get on the throttle earlier but you have to be wary

On track I am driving the car with all stability controls off to make sure I develop a feel for the car but I am in no doubt it can bite. If you want to see what a GT 3 does if you back off in a corner at 130MPH watch this second lap spin at Goodwood 2 weeks ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKvwrfbSCok

OK thats a Gen 1 996 which has a lot less down force but the current car can still bite if you get it wrong

In sumary if you want a great road car that is easy to drive fast that will look after you especially in the wet get a Turbo. If you want a driving challenge and really learn about a how a car handles then a GT 3 can be very very rewarding and it makes a real sports car noise. The GT 3 is also remarkably civilised on the road. Even Clarkson wants one

I am going to love every mile in my GT 3 but I remeber that Turbo very fondly as well

 

[tscaptain]

Yeah but 107Db frightens the horses![] Nice write up Bob - Gen 2 turbo has moved the turbo side of things on some way though too!

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Nice write up Bob

Ditto not to mention tactfully written []

In sharp contrast to the Gen 1 TT, the GT3 is a stunning sports car to drive. I echo Bob's comments about hitting 6,500 rpm except I haven't come close to hitting the redline yet as 6,500 rpm is enough for most situations.

In light of this car's performance, I've booked up with http://www.cadence.co.uk with the HPC membership in mind. I've considered it for years but decided to call them this weekend. Has anyone else taken a course with Cadence or is an HPC member?

 

[bobfair]

I have not used Cadence but I have a day booked with Mike Wilds whom I rate very highly having been in the car with him at Spa and Goodwood.
http://www.mikewilds.com/

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: Sunil
In sharp contrast to the Gen 1 TT, the GT3 is a stunning sports car to drive.

Sorry, but I find the Gen1 Turbo a stunning car to drive... and so do quite a few other owners..

garyw

 

[bobfair]

It is a very quick car Gary and I agree the acceleration is stunning but the overall driving experience is muted comapred to a GT 3. The GT 3 is far more sensual and less practical which I accept is not to everyones taste. I think the Turbo would be a better car if Porsche offered a decent sports exhaust as an option. I think I am right in saying that it is the only car in the Porsche range that doesnt have a sports exhaust option. I would agree that the Turbo is probably a better road car for the majority of people but in terms of an exciting driving experience the GT 3 wins hands down for my money. Which ever you chose they are great cars but very different in their character and performance.

What I would realy like is the grunt of the Turbo with the handling and lightness of the GT 3 perhaps Clives new 2RS will offer just that

 

[Lancerlot]

What you really need is GT3 appeal with TT+ grunt! []

Gosh, that'll probably be a Scuderia then!

Regards,

Clive

 

[bobfair]

A Scuderia is a fabulous car which I would love to own but it is twice the price of a GT 3 which makes me think hard. The GT 3 has to be brilliant value for money even compared to a Turbo never mind a Scud

 

[ds7_uk]

Bob

With you 100% in my previous post I wrote

Interesting reading all the positives about the turbo, your enthusiasm is great!
I know the original thread compared a C4S v turbo and whilst not doubting the engine, I could not get the 4wd handling of the turbo.

Have any of you gone from 2wd, because I could not warm to the turbo handling - which is more about the drivetrain than the motor.

For me under heavy breaking and turn in the front did not have the same level of communication with the steering wheel, feeling heavy, and not as responsive as a 2 rear wd car. The front end would have a tendency to understeer more when applying the throttle out of a corner, the remedy being to wait longer before getter back on the throttle.

In comparison the 2rwd seemed more 'pointy', probably because of the greater ability to steer on the throttle, with the front end not pulling the nose of the car around (as 4wd did) particularly when in oversteer, (which was more difficult to induce in 4wd).

I guess my tendency for the feel of 2rwd has been developed as a result of having a caterham for many years. Maybe explains why I like the GT3RS so much, - drives like a big caterham, but too extreme for me to use on daily basis. Hence sticky with C2S.

 

[Rotorhead]

I had a Suderia (V8 SCD) for a week (took it up to Nick Mason's Ten Tenths collection) and, whilst amazing, I actually preferred the 997GT3.

Something like the Scuderia is always making a huge statement and the detailing feels very contrived. Jump into the GT3 and it shrinks around you and just does a brilliant job without making an exhibition.

The determining factor is the GT3's brilliant steering. As Clarkson says in his GT3 eulogy in yesterday's Sunday Times, "The steering is mainly beyond fabulous. I know of no other car that makes bends such an undiluted joy".

But, I do think the new 3.8 Turbo and 'S' may well offer a closer challenge. Not in its driver involvement, but in its overall capabilities and packaging. I don't think any comparative test would be conclusive.

 

[ds7_uk]

and to finish before pressing the wrong button,

How do you manage to live with on daily bass or dont you?
How much 'comfort' difference is there to the gt3rs?

cheers

Darren

now the go button - now wonder I have a c2s cant handle a macbook!

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: bobfair

I think I am right in saying that it is the only car in the Porsche range that doesnt have a sports exhaust option.

Unfortunately Porsche do not offer a sports exhaust option for the GT3 but I can't imagine why not []

It's questionable whether it even needs one but, if you'd like to 'enhance' your exhaust note, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkWgjCHwNuE&feature=player_embedded

Many people believe that this is the way the GT3 should have sounded from the factory and my OPC agrees.

Sharkwerks are a well respected company and are happy to deliver to the UK. Maybe I should post this in the GT3 forum and see if we can get a group buy together. What do you think?

 

[Wills]

After 8 months of Porsche ownership I yearn for a GT3.2 or a Turbo.2 I will upgrade next summer, problem is which ever I choose I know I will either..

1. Want the torque and all weather ability of the Turbo if I get the GT3 or
2. Want the involvement and sound of the GT3 if I get a Turbo....

You can't win can you [](unless you have silly money) both are enormously capable cars and probably the best real world sports cars available today.

As of now I would get the GT3 it would be a daily driver but I drive round with the PASM on Sport anyway as normal mode seems too soft! []

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: ds7_uk


How do you manage to live with on daily bass or dont you?
How much 'comfort' difference is there to the gt3rs?

I try to drive my GT3 most days and it's an absolute pleasure. I have a comfort spec car with most options except ceramic brakes and the CD changer.

The ride is firm but comfortable and the steering is sharp. I have the regular sports seats as my five year old nephew is a Porsche fanatic and these are great for everyday use - I can't comment on the bucket seats. The front axle lifting kit is useful and means that you seldom scrape the splitter. Voice activation means that you can enter destinations in the satnav whilst driving as well as telephoning people by name. The Sport Chrono is useless but lets you customise the PCM. I haven't programmed the Homelink yet but know it will be useful.

On the negative side, by the time the engine has warmed up, I'm more often than not at my destination already. I have been known to take lengthy detours in driving to my destinations since I bought my GT3 . It can take a few miles for the tyres to warm up but, seeing as I'm taking it easy till the engine warms up, this isn't an issue for me.

I was driving through traffic today and, whilst the clutch is heavier than most, it's fine if you're used to sports cars. My only issue with traffic is my right leg cramping up in crawling traffic - this is one car which would benefit from Distronic! Needless to say, it's essential to stretch the right leg once the road opens up but I'm not sure that will be accepted as a valid excuse if stopped by the police []

My car has Corsa tyres and I've had no issues in the wet. The brakes start squealing on occasion but this is because there's not enough heat in them and it clears up with some harder braking. The rear spoiler is rather big and can restrict vision at first but you get used to it and compensate accordingly.

All in all, I see no reason why most people couldn't use a GT3 as an everyday car apart from the lack of rear seats. It's a wonderful car but the people who will like it are the people who enjoy driving. It's definitely not for people who just want to get from A to B. I can't comment on the difference with the RS but I have a friend who drives a 997.1 GT3RS as an everyday car and he seems happy.

 

[bobfair]

ORIGINAL: Sunil



I think I am right in saying that it is the only car in the Porsche range that doesnt have a sports exhaust option.

Sorry Sunil my note was not clear. I was referring to the Turbo not having a sports exhaust as an option The GT 3 already has one as standard and sounds wonderful.

I do not use my GT 3 as an everyday drive but you could especially if you have a comfort model like Sunil. When I got the car I was amazed at how good the ride quality is every bit as good as my C2S was. I think the clutch is a bit heavy for prolonged use in traffic.

I have not driven a RS but a recent review in GT Porsche said it was less comfortable and much noiser due to the lighter windows.

I am not knocking the Turbo I think it is a great car which I enjoyed owning but it is more of a GT than a sports car. The Turbo has "Warp drive" but lacks some character in my opinion.

The GT 3 is a real sports car which has its limitations but if you like driving you will love it as did Mr Clarkson


Edit to sort out the quotes!

 

[bobfair]

Sorry Sunil I didnt respond to your point re Sharkwerks exhaust as I was rudely interuppted by some lawyers.

I agree Sharkwerks sound wonderful and even better than the stock exhaust but my worry would be pasing the noise tests for Track days. First time out at Castle Combe my car recorded 107db on a static noise test. I got this down to 105db by warming the car up and by pressing the clutch in during the test. At Goodwood it was on the limit at 105db. (By comparison my Turbo was 99db) I am concerned Sharkwerks would push me over the noise limit which would not be good as I want to use the car for track days.