Turbo wont crank

[barks944]

My turbo wouldn't start on Tuesday. It was making a bit of a grating when cranking for a couple of days. I thought perhaps the battery was a bit low. I think maybe the battery went totally flat. I d/c it to charge and now it wont even try and crank. Just like the immobiliser hasn't de-immobilised the car. The battery is showing 12.4 volts on a multimeter and wont take much charge from a battery charger. Before I start looking at ripping the immobiliser apart are there any relays/fuses I should check. I had a look on the fuse box but it doesn't list any to do with the starter motor. Any suggestions appreciated.

Looks like this might be a feature of the immobiliser. Any way to reset it? I think it might be an after market. Its got a key fob you push into a slot on the right side of the steering column..

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Hi
Does the solenoid clicK ?
Are all of the connections good and tight? - Battery and starter.
Any chance of using another running car to jump it from? - that usually will prove if its a battery.
Mike

 

[barks944]

Something is pulling in when I try and crank it. I suppose it must be the starter solenoid. I guess it might be the starter motor or the supply to the starter motor then...

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: barks944

It was making a bit of a grating when cranking for a couple of days.

I thought perhaps the battery was a bit low. I think maybe the battery went totally flat.

Dude,

You cranked your car for a couple of days?

That's a hell of a battery you have there! Not to mention the starter motor. And you think it was flat after all that time ... I'm SURE it was! []

(Sorry, too easy! A serious answer would be to try and identify whether the immobiliser really has stopped it from running - once the battery is flat then it's not uncommon for alarms and immobilisers to be a bit dicky for a while. Do the usual tests - make sure that there is a voltage where there should be, using a multimeter, to make sure that there isn't a circuit that has been broken. Work from there ... )


Oli.

 

[DivineE]

I would a. try off another car (to check battery) then b. try bump starting it (to check starter) if neither works I guess it would be c. immobiliser but just as a safety note before any of that you haven't had any suspicion of a headgasket going recently have you? It's a worst case scenario but I'd hate to advise you to bump start the car then realise it was hydro locked from water in the cylinders and put a rod through your block!

edit to add p.s. if the battery went dead over a few days did you notice any lights on the dash? Even dimly? Maybe the alternator isn't charging properly but that would illuminate the red battery sign in the dash (usually not very brightly)

 

[barks944]

Bump started no problem last night. Going to check the starter over tonight. No hydro lock fortunately.

 

[DivineE]

Excellent news Nice spec by the way... very nice! If your using a chip and boost enhancer I recently learnt that with a standard type boost enhancer (the kind that limits the flow of air to the wastegate and tricks the car into increasing boost pressure) you only get a reduction in lag and a boost to your mid range torque because at higher rpm the flow of air is sufficiant to overcome the effect of the valve and the pressure drops back to standard level.

However if you use a bleed off type valve which splits the air two ways and bleeds some of the air destined for the wastegate away it can create a constant lower pressure signal to the wastegate and the boost curve will remain higher right to the redline.. which gives a better torque curve and higher peak hp figures. It might be that everyone already knows this and I'm well behind but I was very impressed by this free modifying tip.

 

[barks944]

Thanks for the info, Ive got an APEXI AVC-R installed on mine. It uses a solenoid to regulate the pressure sent to the wastegate. Its a bit like an injector and operates on a pulse width in the same manner. The cool thing is you can set the duty cycle based on RPM and speed input, this means you can run different boost in different gears and a different RPM points. I only have it hooked up to measure RPM, it needs speed to work out what gear you are in. I use this to vary the pressure sent to the wastegate (dual port) with RPM. At low RPM I use a high duty to allow boost to reach the wastegate and keep it closed (pushing against the other side of the diaphragm than actual boost), mid RPM use a pre-determined duty to give 1 bar boost and at high RPM I run max duty to try and keep the wastegate shut. It helps to keep the boost up but it still drops to about 0.7 bar at 6krpm. This is an issue with the wastegate being overcome afaik.

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Could be battery or starter, batterys can show good volts but not provide the amps.
Mike

 

[AndrewS]

ORIGINAL: barks944

My turbo wouldn't start on Tuesday. It was making a bit of a grating when cranking for a couple of days. I thought perhaps the battery was a bit low. I think maybe the battery went totally flat. I d/c it to charge and now it wont even try and crank. Just like the immobiliser hasn't de-immobilised the car. The battery is showing 12.4 volts on a multimeter and wont take much charge from a battery charger. Before I start looking at ripping the immobiliser apart are there any relays/fuses I should check. I had a look on the fuse box but it doesn't list any to do with the starter motor. Any suggestions appreciated.

Looks like this might be a feature of the immobiliser. Any way to reset it? I think it might be an after market. Its got a key fob you push into a slot on the right side of the steering column..

Do you know what Immobiliser you have? With early Porsche and HP ones (Hamilton Palmer), if the battery was removed or went flat - the immobiliser would then isolate the starting circuit. The car would then not start.

Reseting the Immobiliser (by removing and replacing the inline fuse) would resolve the problem. I had this experience many a time on Porsche models a few years back (many of these systems have been replaced now).

Regards,
Andrew

 

[barks944]

Guess i need a new starter then....

 

[sulzeruk]

Have some spare starters here if you need some parts or want to rebuild your old one,
Alasdair

 

[barks944]

Where are you based Alasdair?

 

[robwright]

ORIGINAL: barks944

Where are you based Alasdair?

Mate you have so got to be ex military!!! []

 

[DivineE]

Ouch. Well at least you don't have to spend too much time analysing what might be the cause! I didn't realise you had an EBC that's the top rung of the boost control ladder. Interesting that you can set different boost at different RPM though. I didn't know that and that's very useful.

I'm surprised reading the list of parts you have fitted that you are only making 274hp. There's no reason boost should be dropping off like that with a dual port waste gate fitted so I can only assume your turbo is running out of puff.. is it a K26/6 turbo? Am I right in thinking you are using 9xx chips? If so I think with the rest of your set up you could release a fair bit extra by changing the turbo on your car. Might as well while your changing the starter[] It's a shame to waste that higher spec chassis you have created. Go on you know you want 350hp[]

 

[sulzeruk]

Up in sunny Scotland. I can get you one couriered tomorrow if you are desperate. Drop me an e-mail. Would get it on Monday,
Alasdair

 

[barks944]

I can't claim to have done much to the car. Scott the P/O got it this far, I certainly agree it could handle a lot more power. Its got a promax lvl 2 on it atm, thats chips and DPW. The turbo is probably running out of puff as its a 26/6. I haven't had it on the dyno with the EBC installed, 275 was with a MBC. Ive had the intercooler modified, fitted the EBC and serviced it.

At some point I think somthing will go bang, maybe the turbo first. I like the idea of increasing capacity as well as fitting a bigger more modern turbo. The thing that puts me off is that it needs a good injection system to go with it. Standalone is the way to go I think.

The car goes like stink as it is so I'm not in a mad rush!

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: sulzeruk

Up in sunny Scotland. I can get you one couriered tomorrow if you are desperate. Drop me an e-mail. Would get it on Monday,
Alasdair

I'll try and source one locally first, but I might take you up on that.

Are the starters the same for all 944's? Are they found on any other cars?

 

[DivineE]

I think there's a happy medium somewhere between the two. Like you say they're quick by any measure just with chips on the standard turbo (probably quick enough really).

There's no question that my 3.2 felt something special in the way it went. I've certainly never felt any other car quite like it and a number of my more distinguished passengers said the same even getting out of cars like DB9's and Continental GT's no one could believe the suction into the seat back when I put my foot down in 4th it just caught you by surprise every time but it became an expensive hobby going in search of all that power and if I had my time again I think I'd have stuck with 350hp and been satisfied!

p.s. Having just seen your technical posts on other threads I apologise for stating the obvious to you earlier! Your knowledge far exceeds my own.

p.p.s in reply to your recent post no the turbo starter motor is smaller and lighter than other models.

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: DivineE

p.s. Having just seen your technical posts on other threads I apologise for stating the obvious to you earlier! Your knowledge far exceeds my own.

No need to apologise! I spew out a load of BS most of the time, usually somone corrects me though, which is good!

Thanks for the info on the turbo starter motor. Looks like it wont be so easy to find!