Turbo won't turn over

[Lowtimer]

Grr. Here I am about to pop down to Daytona Bodyworks and despite a faultless run down from the North last night, and no history every of reluctant starting in the 6 months I've had the car, it won't turn over this morning. It just makes a relay / solenoid style 'clunk' and that's all. The immobiliser is disarming ok, or it wouldn't even be doing that. Tried a booster battery on it, connected directly to the car battery, no dice. The battery was new when I got the car, and has been conditioned fortnightly so I would be surprised if there is a sudden fault in that. The voltmeter reads a shade under 12V at rest, and dips fractionally when the clunk comes in.

I'm guessing wiring, or a faulty solenoid, or the starter's burned out a pole, maybe. I'm away from base with no tools so there's probably not a lot I am able to do, and it's not parked ina position where I can try bump-starting it. Might have to get the Cambridge OPC to recover it on Monday and do expensive things to it.

Still, at least I'm not stalled in the middle of a level crossing with the klaxons starting to sound...[8|]

 

[DivineE]

I'd try getting jump leads on it before you jump to other conclusions but not sure. My bad earth problem resulted in zero attempt to turn over, the starter motor is apparently designed to snap the shaft and fail if the engine is compression locked and the only time I had a flooded cylinder in a 44 it made an attempt to turn over briefly first and sounded obviously tight.

Immobiliser again as you say results in nothing happening. The only thing I can think of that sounds like that is a flat battery?!

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Tty a proper jump start from a running car - powa paks dont alwys do it - if it works , suspect charging cuircit.
Mike

 

[graham.webb]

Just a random thought before you pay to have it recovered...you have checked that it's got oil in it? Sounds silly, but I was called out to a friend's car some years ago because it wouldn't turn over, and it was seized...

 

[Lowtimer]

Gents, I am grateful for your suggestions: I know from previous experience that sometimes the "silly" suggestion can lead to a "eureka" moment.

I've been out doing other things most of the day but will try jumping it off a running car tomorrow. It was apparently charging healthily all the way down the A1 yesterday showing around 13.5V on the voltmeter, so it would be a surprise if the charging circuit. My first suspicion was that I'd managed to leave the parking lights on, but upon checking the switch was where it ought to be, i.e. off, as were the lights. I've frequently left the car for a week and it's always started straight up before, but of course it is not impossible for batteries to fail suddenly. However, I am showing 12V on the gauge with the engine off and there is electrical power to the car, and last night I did not have that tell-tale 'dying battery' syndrome of dim headlights at idle, only brightening up when the alternator revs up.

All temps and pressures, running sounds and performance were normal and I had just topped off with about 0.3 of a litre of oil before I set off last night. Just checked it again and it's still on the full mark. There's no evidence of oil leaking or going down through the exhaust, just the normal slight exhaust pipe dry sootiness that comes from the normal on-boost richness.

Chances are it's a connection dropped off somewhere, and / or a starter brush on the way out (which after a presumed 20 years, would hardly be surprising). Wish I could get under the car, then I could try bypassing the solenoid, putting power direct to the starter. But I can't. Oh well, probably not really an 'interesting' 944-specific problem, just a mundane old-car problem, most likely.

Anyway, if the jump start from a running donor doesn't work in the morning it will be on a recovery truck on Monday. Worse things happen... Anyway, we'll see. Thanks again for the thoughts. Just a shame it meant I didn't get down to Daytona Coachworx.

 

[alwigley]

This sounds like the old problem of the dog wheel on the starter being slightly out of alignment with the teeth on the flywheel, and so the solonoid cannot get it engaged - the setup in usually such that the starter won't turn until the solonoid has fully moved. Mine does it occasionally, and it used to happen all the time on older vehicles. Try sticking it in first gear and pushing it/rocking it forward a bit with the handbrake off, then try starting again - you may find it works once more........[] Used to live on a hill, and always parked pointing downwards in case this happens as it is so much easier than pushing a heavy car ! Good luck........

 

[Lowtimer]

Good thought, and I did actually try that yesterday, but it didn't do anything for me. Am giving it a go with a running donor in a little while...

 

[Lowtimer]

Well, the jump-start didn't work, and I also topped off the battery on a mains charger overnight, not that it really took anything. So barring some kind of wiring fault the best guess is it's time for a new solenoid and/or starter. Could be worse, at least I'm not stuck in the rain miles from civilisation. Recovery is arranged for Monday morning and I'll let you know the outcome. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[dlknight]

DME Relay?

Mine did this last week (car was still warm) and wouldn't turnover but I could hear the started solenoid clicking...

Left it for 30 minutes and it burst into life again...

Dave K.

 

[Lowtimer]

I can see why it would prevent the engine from firing, but why would the DME relay prevent the starter engaging? That's just simple electrics, no electronics at all, surely?

Anyway, it's gone off to be tended to, so we'll see.

 

[Lowtimer]

Ze starter, she is blown: open circuit on the winding. New one on the way... Connections were all fine.

 

[alwigley]

Glad you got to the bottom of it - been years since I have dealt with a dead starter motor, as they are so reliable nowadays.....[]

 

[Lowtimer]

Picked the car up today complete with shiny new starter, thanks to the Cambridge OPC which has been efficient, friendly and reasonably priced throughout the experience, including arranging the recovery for me. This does appear to be one OPC that genuinely wants to work on older cars and does not come over all sniffy if you are not in the market for a new 997.

I have to say, it's made a terrific difference. I've noticed before with 944s that they seem to sound a bit reluctant, turning over on the starter, and mine's always been like tha tsince I've had it, but has always actually started very promptly. I thought it was just a characteristic of the type. Well, it's not like that now: it turns over with vim and vigour and even sounds nice in operation, if you can imagine such a thing from a starter motor.

Anyway, not a cheap episode but not one I mind in the end, mainly because the car has come back so much better than it was even before the starter actually failed.

 

[jasonp]

hiya lowtimer, so glad you got the problem sorted and sounds like the opc were really helpful, would be really interested to find out what the cost of a new starter fitted would be? i know you said it was costly, i hope you dont mind me asking,. regards jason p

 

[Lowtimer]

Paid £382.11+VAT for the starter, £187+VAT for the labour, and £89+VAT for the recovery. No quibbles, they did a good job and those prices represent a decent discount on list for the parts and the labour both.

They gave me the option of a recon starter but it wasn;t a huge amount cheaper on the overall bill given that I would still have the same labour and recovery charge to pay, and I'd rather have an all-new one so that's what I went for.