Tyre recommendations for a 944 S2

[Guest]

Does anybody have any tyre recommendations for a 944 S2, used all year round as a daily driver? I don't have the original design 90 wheels on, but currently am using 215/45 ZR17 Bridgestone Potenza - which have lasted all of about 4000 miles! I seem to recall reading somewhere on this forum that Toyo T1-Rs or Toyo T1-Ss were good. Does anybody know the difference between the R and the S spec?
Cheers,

Graham

 

[mik_ok]

The "R" replaced the "S" which is now getting hard to come by.... I have T1-S on the rear and wanted some of the same on the front, but not seen many places with them left. The R is supposedly "as good or better" in all areas, and is claimed to last longer (the only real criticism I've heard of the S).

The T1-S came a very close 3rd in the evo tyre test of 2002(?) It was marginally beaten by the GSD3 and the Conti Sport. These things are all relative as a 205/50/15 need not perform like a 255/40/17 however......

I've found the T1-R to be pitched at a slightly higher price relative to it's contemporaries than the T1-S was. In saying that Camskill CLICK seem to do pretty good deals on them.

 

[Fen]

Graham, either you drive really hard all the time or there is a problem. I have about 2,500 on Dunlop SSR track tyres including a dry track day and they still have loads of life left in them (under the melted lumps).

 

[Guest]

I found this thread very useful when I was due some new tyres: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=100876

In the end I opted for Michelin MXX3 N2's which are way better than the no-name rubbish they replaced!

 

[Guest]

Fen,

I am pretty sure that I must have some sort of setup problem - they haven't worn across the whole tread, but rather just the outside edges of both front tyres have worn down. One of the tyres also has a big chunk out of the sidewall (on the inside edge, so I only noticed it when taking the wheel off to give the alloys a good clean). Therefore, I am taking the opportunity to replace both of them - especially since I am starting to worry about that magic 75% figure (i.e. at least 75% of the width of the tyre must have at least 1.6mm tread depth.). The rest of the tread is very much deeper than 1.6mm. The garage that I had taken the car to before claimed that the wear pattern was to do with 'power steering' which I neither understand, nor agree with. It is the geometry that dictates wear and not power steering or otherwise.

For reference, I got a quote for Toyo T1-Rs (215/45 ZR17) £86 inc VAT, fitting etc. and T1-S £74 inc. from a little back-street garage in Middlesbrough. On this basis I was wondering what the assembled panel thought the advantages of the R over the S would be and whether this would justify the extra £24 for a pair.
Cheers,

Graham

 

[Big Dave]

If you can get some Goodyear GSD3,s for the right money ide get them...
Ive got them fitted to both the 968 + the S2... They ARE brill...[][][]
Nice + forgiving + a fairly soft sidewall so a nice smooth ride....

BUT

Ide be defo tempted to get you alighnment sorted out or youl be replacing the replaced in no time....[][][]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: GCHinton
I am pretty sure that I must have some sort of setup problem - they haven't worn across the whole tread, but rather just the outside edges of both front tyres have worn down. One of the tyres also has a big chunk out of the sidewall (on the inside edge, so I only noticed it when taking the wheel off to give the alloys a good clean). Therefore, I am taking the opportunity to replace both of them - especially since I am starting to worry about that magic 75% figure (i.e. at least 75% of the width of the tyre must have at least 1.6mm tread depth.). The rest of the tread is very much deeper than 1.6mm. The garage that I had taken the car to before claimed that the wear pattern was to do with 'power steering' which I neither understand, nor agree with. It is the geometry that dictates wear and not power steering or otherwise.

Hi Graham,

Have you (or a previous owner) changed your front suspension at some time? Particularly, have you fitted the suspension from an early turbo?

What you have described is that your wheels have positive camber on them. This is most likely because you (or a previous owner) has fitted turbo suspension from a narrow track car. Your S2 will have the wide track suspension. The result is that you get positive camber, and the outside of your tyres wears out.

James

 

[mik_ok]

ORIGINAL: JamesH
What you have described is that your wheels have positive camber on them.

Either that, or you have far too much toe-in on the tracking.

Is the worn outer edge of the tyre relatively "flat" or is it "feathered"? Poor description from me, but a bad toe adjustment causes the tyre to almost "tear" accross the surface, so the treadblocks at the edge end up with a distict "feathered edge" on them. LIKE THIS IN FACT

Regardless - a full front geometry setup (toe, castor, camber) should be max 1hrs labour at a decent specialist.

aside:
Whilst at uni, I went through a set of front tyres on an old Fiat Superstrada in approx 700 miles (most of it on one long journey with lots of passengers, so I couldn't stop even though I could feel the tracking was out). The gimp at Budget had mis-read the machine when setting up my tracking, and I had looooads of toe-in.

 

[lali]

Ive got Falken FK451's on my S2 my brother runs them on his 968CS and I had them on my M5... they are a fantastic tyre last for ages at a fraction of the cost of the "big names" Michel Dever can sort you out with a set at a really good price. or Braknell Tyre and Battery 01344411323

Ive done the best part of 6K miles on mine so far including a couple of trackdays, never had any problems with them at all...

 

[Guest]

Tyres that "last forever" usually do so because they're made of wood, and have similar grip characteristics []

I always prefer to go for a tyre that wears a bit quicker, but grips better, especially in the wet. I don't think you should ever buy a tyre because it lasts a long time. It's pointless having lovely new looking tyres on a car that's wrapped around a tree.

James

 

[mik_ok]

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation though (one of my favourite sayings is that "All sweeping generalisations are complete and utter sh** " [] )

Whilst people are unlikely to argue with the sentiment, wear rate and grip are not entirely mutually exclusive. GSD3s for example are known to be pretty (relatively) wear resistant, yet win many tests.

 

[Guest]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good sweeping generalisation []

I didn't mean that I buy tyres that wear quickly because I think they'll grip well. I buy tyres that I know will grip well, not worrying about how quickly they will wear.

My car currently has Pirelli P9000s on (it came with them), which are about the worst wet handling tyre you can possibly get. I haven't got round to putting some proper tyres on yet, and I must say, they're shocking. They look almost new, but I think they've been on the car for a long long time.

 

[John Sims]

Tyres are funny things, and so are peoples expectations of their performance. By its nature a slick tyre is brilliant in the dry but useless in the wet and block or grooved tyre the opposite. All road tyres are a derivative of the above so what may be a tyre of poor performance in the dry may be brilliant in the wet (did someone shout Uniroyal? []).

Tyre manufactures appreciate that every tyre design is a compromise; will it ware well, will it give good wet/dry grip, is it noisy, will it be expensive, does it stop well, does it have a low rolling resistance, does it corner well, does it have good straight line stability, does it look nice even. These compromises impact to the point where even the manufacturer offers different types of tyre so you can choose to your own criteria.

This being the case tyre choice is very subjective and one persons idea of a "good" tyre may not be someone else's. Unfortunately, the only way to decide if you like a tyre or not is to try it. But then it might be worse than the one you had before and you are lumbered for the next 18 months or so. Such a dilemma.

I'm not unhappy with the Contisport Contacts on the front of Beaky but I haven't had enough experience of any other tyre on that car to say if it is any better or worse. I used to have Contisports on the back but now accidentally bought Maxis. These don't seem to offer any less grip than the Contis, seem to wear better, and were cheaper - so you could say that they were better. But, when they eventually wear out (and not through lack of trying on my part [] ) I will replace them with Contis 'cos I don't like the idea of a strange manufacturer on a performance car.

Yokos were brilliant on the Westfield and I would like to try them on the Porsche. They are very expensive though and probably wouldn't last long. I bet they would stick to the point that you could drive up walls though. Avon make race tyres and their road tyres look mean so I would quite like to try them, but they might be worse.

In the end all I can say is Conti's work for me and I will probably stick with them.

 

[Fen]

The P6000 is the spawn of Satan. It has no place on a performance car. It should be burned at the stake (or better, around a Gatso in the middle of the country).

I'd also say from experience that Avon's made my Turbo and then the S2 I was selling on sound like it had a really badly worn rear wheel bearing so I wouldn't touch them either.

 

[mik_ok]

But James is running oddball P9000s which I estimate to be 1.5 times as bad [&:] []

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Fen

The P6000 is the spawn of Satan.

These are what I currently have on the front of my soon to be 400bhp+ monster.

They are indeed made of bacolite and have been on the car since I bought it 51,000 miles ago. This includes several wet track days and two trips to the Nurburgring - maybe I just brake like a big wuss []

What I do like about them is they are very communicative on a track - ie they squeal like a piggy long before they are about to let go.

 

[hotblack944]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
have been on the car since I bought it 51,000 miles ago.

My last set of P6000s on the back of the Lux lasted < 23K miles. You're simply not trying hard enough [][][] Are yours N1? Mine were/are - can this make such a difference? I know it's terribly fashionable to hate these tyres, but I think they suit the Lux rather well.

The last set of SO2 Pole Positions on the back of the S2 lasted 10K miles [] I've gone back to SO2 N3s all round now and will keep buying them as long as I can find them. 'Nuff said.

YMMV.

Jim.

 

[Diver944]

No they're not N rated.

You have to know that those 51k miles were mostly done on my old 80 mile round trip commute. It was literally dual carriageway, motorway, dual carriageway and only 5 roundabouts between home and work - not exactly high wear conditions.

Since July in my VW van I have already needed a new tyre after only 2.5k miles []

Bl00dy punctures []

I got the tyre free of charge though because the owner of the tyre place needed a bumper scuff removing. I also wangled two rear 255/40/17 Dunlops for only £90 each []

 

[hotblack944]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
No they're not N rated.

Perhaps it does then. Maybe there's more to this N rated stuff than people would have you believe???

ORIGINAL: Diver944
You have to know that those 51k miles were mostly done on my old 80 mile round trip commute.

Ditto - my commute was only 76 miles though []

Jim.

 

[944Turbo]

My rears wear faster than the fronts. My fav 944 tyres are dunlop sp9000 although I currently have GSD3's on the front. The dunlops are possibly less grippy than the SO2 N3's but they have much nicer on the limit characteristics and make me look like a sideways king when in reality I am only average. This last set were V slippy for the first 500 miles or so though.

Tony