valuation

[harry]

Hi all,

How do I go about getting a valuation for my RS for insurance purposes? I tried the valuation section but doesn't accept my username and password. Also how up to date are those who do the valuation since the market has moved rather rapidly since a year ago.
Cheers.

Harry

 

[Guest]

Last time I had to do this I asked my local OPC for a valuation. It's probably worth going to one or two sources and getting quotes in writing as insurance companies will always try and go for the lowest number if the worst comes to the worst. Don't think for a moment that they will accept advertsied prices of 993 RS's as a benchmark.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Why not just use the free Club Member valuation? It's an approved insurance valuation, by post, and costs nothing. [8|]

 

[ianmcg]

I didn't know there was one...will try that. Thanks.

 

[jdpef356]

ORIGINAL: ianmcg

Like many Haggerty refugees I have changed insurer and now need a valuation (despite having an invoice less than a year old). What's the best answer? I presume Herr Schmitz will do it but is there an easy UK way. I'd rather not have to the take the car anywhere though.

Ian

Use other current adds to support you cars value ie http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1039985.htm

I find if you help them they return the favour[]

 

[RIVIERAM002]

I got a letter from Thomas plus sent 4 photo's, front, back, & both sides for an agreed valuation, plus copy any 993 rs for sale ads as this will give an indication of market values which seems to be around £85,000, then with low mileage cars such as the riviera blue 993 rs which Tom has for sale at 150,000 euro, in the event of total loss, what's it going to cost to replace like for like? thats the figure your valuation should be based on, scom have a speed yellow 993 rs at the moment for £85,000 so that would be the cost of replacement given condition and mileage which would come into the equation

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I didn't know there was one...will try that. Thanks.

Yep, download the form from the website. Go to "about PCGB", "help & advice", and you'll find "valuations". Should take a couple of weeks to turn around but it's a valuation approved by the insurance industry.

 

[epoch911]

Hi
This looks very handy - Sorry to hijack a 993RS thread (but it's still relevant hopefully!) - I'm looking at getting a valuation for my 2.7RS at the moment... how does the club take into account the history of a car as opposed to merely its condition/service history? - can't see anything on the form that relates? So much of a car's value can be attributed to provenance that I presume it must have a bearing on valuation?

Thanks

Ant

 

[Nick Moss]

ORIGINAL: epoch911
This looks very handy - Sorry to hijack a 993RS thread (but it's still relevant hopefully!) - I'm looking at getting a valuation for my 2.7RS at the moment... how does the club take into account the history of a car as opposed to merely its condition/service history? - can't see anything on the form that relates? So much of a car's value can be attributed to provenance that I presume it must have a bearing on valuation?

I think that any car with special history can't be valued on the basis of comparisons with other "similar" cars. Look at the difference in 2.7RS prices across Europe, depending on how recent the restoration was, who did it, spec and colour. I would get a valuation from someone like Josh Sadler, who knows the market for these cars as well as anyone.

 

[ChrisW]

But unique cars are still extremely hard to value.

One of the 7 RHD Clubsports ?

Or my high mileage (83k miles), but the one development car complete with the development log which should never have left the factory, and is therefore totally unique ... Vin ends 90009 ... ???

 

[clubsport]

Chris, on the basis that the information and provenance was known on that car before your purchase, surely it is worth close to what you paid for it...plus the bit everyone seems to add on?

Did they only use 1 car for development, thats not normally the case,,if so, do you think it is worth £â‚¬$ 7 figures now then???

 

[ChrisW]

Paul, the point is, I don't know what it's worth.

I've done a lot of work proving the provenance, identifiying the drivers and their specialisations, and also returning the car to standard -- albeit keeping the full cage and other things that suit me well and would probably (hopefully) be retained by a future owner.

The autograph book is totally unique and I don't believe that anybody has previously realised how special this document is ... how sensitive this information was at the time the book accidentally found it's way out of Porsche ...

There was only one RS --- though there were three 993 Turbos, one of which was for sale recently with a healthy premium price tag.

I've also accumulated an original set of CS spoilers, and a set of Speedline Mags --- since it seems that the car will also have been driven with these during the various testing processes ... though it's build spec was with the small spoiler set.

The one development road car sold of arguably the best variant, of the most desireable model that Porsche have manufactured in the last 20 years ? And with paperwork that should not have existed outside the factory --- signed by all the drivers with dates, mileages, project numbers and cost centres, even showing consumables.

Where does one start ?

 

[clubsport]

Chris, it is certainly an interesting car,,agree it is hard to value, especially where intangibles are concerned.

At the end of the day it is likely that a premium is warranted for the provenance, the extent of that would have to be down to the expectant buyer!

It's difficult because an 80k mile RS should be such a useable car.

Not that I am looking to buy, but are you selling anytime soon, or is this the keeper of the collection?

 

[Mike Cooper 33]

Chris,

Intruiged by your car and its history. I do some work for Porsche internationally and they were telling me thatt they do not have a 993RS in the museum collection! I find this slightly hard to believe but will attempt to verify, I know they have a 964RS.

Have you any idea why your car, as a development car is RHD? Seems very odd.

Cheers

 

[vic cohen]

i m having lunch with the original UK owner on Thursday i ll ask him ................

 

[clubsport]

I thought the rhd part was covered in Chris' excellent Porsche Post article on the car a few months back.

On the valuation front......

I am going through the insurance quote game on my car right now...fun and games until you eventually find the sweet spot quote...With respect to valuation, I have been happy to go with market.

The insurer is aware of what the car is and I have given them a ball park valuation, if the worse were to happen and a payout were due I am led to believe the assessor would look at market value at that time.

On the basis I would hope to have a better idea of 993RS CS prices than him/her and could produce spread sheets of advertised priced examples over the last 8 years, hopefully we could arrive at a mutually agreeable figure?

Someone (presumably of sound mind???) is advertising a CS with incorrect wheels and seats for €159k, my ballpark valuation is WAY under market.

http://tinyurl.com/3689c4a

I have to say, it brings home what a pain these cars can be now they have become more valuable, insurance premiums are obviously higher and restrictions on use etc... not as much fun as they were.

So have I lost the plot with market valuation or should I go for agreed value?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

So have I lost the plot with market valuation or should I go for agreed value?

I can only speak for the 944s I know well. The difference between "market" valuation, i.e. what an insurer will offer you, and "agreed value", which the insurer HAS to pay you, are ridiculous. Probably a factor of three or four times, although the insurer's first "market" offer is only their starting point.

Obviously we're talking a different league of car here, but why would any insurer offer any more than they could get away with unless you've agreed a value? You can't get an agreed value that's way over the odds, it has to be fair, but I can't see why it's not the only sensible way to go.

 

[clubsport]

Paul, sorry I really don't follow the offering more than could get away with part They have taken an insurance premium based on a general evaluation, which indicates the car is worth more than a Carrera 2. The assessor would establish a market value, who knows where the market will be?

I genuinely think it is fair to say, that among the regular contributors to this forum, there are probably a handful of people who collectively have the best idea of 993RS prices than anyone in the UK. I would like to think PCGB would hold sway on valuation with an insurance co rather than an old edition of Glasses guide.

I am certainly only interested in something fair and would more than likely err on a lower valuation to make life a little easier.

On the basis that partly due to currency movements and rarity, the value of these cars has been all over the place, a few less than a handful tend to change hands in a given year. If you went with an agreed value sum, it could end up being over/ under the replacement cost of a similar car (if you found one) in the matter of 6 months.

With respect, you could find recently transacted values of any 944 variant (maybe not Cup) within the last 6 months and probably not be more than £1k or so away from fair value with the assesor, with cars such as rarer 993, we are looking at intrinsic valuation that may be within £10-20k apart?

With prices moving as they have, I wonder of agreed value could potentially leave an owner out of pocket if they chose to replace the car.


Lets also make sure we are all aware prices may not neccesarily go the same way in the future! []

 

[pauljmcnulty]

With respect, you could find recently transacted values of any 944 variant (maybe not Cup) within the last 6 months and probably not be more than £1k or so away from fair value with the assesor, with cars such as rarer 993, we are looking at intrinsic valuation that may be within £10-20k apart?

With prices moving as they have, I wonder of agreed value could potentially leave an owner out of pocket if they chose to replace the car.

I agree totally. But, £1K on a 944 could be 50% off on value. I've seen worse, cars valued by insurers on their "market assesment" at a third or a quarter of their real value. Even after a battle I've never seen them get a proper payout, and who needs the hassle after a theft or write-off accident? Assessors earn their living by reducing payouts by the largest amount possible.

As an example, a guy with a very decent 944 got an agreed value for double the market value of his model. That was based on buying the best on the market, and then bringing it up to the condition his was in. Not concourse, but original and exceptional condition.

Of course, if his car rocketed in value from £15K to £60K over a few weeks, he'd potentially lose out. In the real world values don't move that quickly, and you could get another valuation if you felt it was necessary.

To me, the more difficult to value a car is, the more an insurer wil try to wriggle out of a full payout. Steve Kevlin has decades of experience within the Porsche world, and in my experience he will be open to your opinion on the car's value. If you don't like the valuation, there's nothing lost and you can bin it. []

I do appreciate that I'm not in any way qualified to advise on your car, just my experience of dealing with plenty of 944 owners who've asked me to help with negotiations when they've not got an agreed value. I've never, in six years, had anyone disappointed with either a Club valuation or the insurer accepting it.

 

[clubsport]

I have no problem with PCGB valuation and having been a member for 16 years now, having previously used the valuation facility....it is something I am aware of. I have suggested values in the past with the necessary photos which Mr K has confirmed.

I am grateful for your response and the work you do for your 944 owners. To be honest I am really interested in the views of other 993/64RS/RSR who have insured cars which do not have a static value.

To recap before this gets even more drawn out....

Agreed value......fine, but what if prices of comparable cars changes???

Market, estimated value where you prove or establish a valuation at the time of the claim.

Which makes more sense in the current environment with these cars.

Cheers.