Valuations

polar964 · Jul 28, 2014

Folks, would be interested to know whether you have used the Porsche Club for a valuation of your 964?
It appears that prices are rising rapidly (whether the ones for sale are realistic or not I don't know).
However, if you did use the clubs service, were you pleasantly surprised or disappointed?
I have been in touch with my insurance company today (insurance due) and they won't increase unless I have it valued!
Would value your opinions please . Thanks

mcgc0 · Jul 28, 2014

In my experience I wouldn't bother again. Seemed pretty random and not well 'in tune' with the market I found. I instead binned the form and simply said what I wanted the agreed valuation to be and paid the small extra premium. Let's face it, most of us have cheap classic and limited mileage cover and the extra £40 or so seemed fine to me.

Good luck...

andrew_churcher · Jul 28, 2014

There is another thread on this and the poor club service. I think it was being raised at the AGM.

I paid £30 and got john Glynn to value mine and only took a week. £32k using jzm car that was for sale at the time as primary example as what it would cost to replace.

pauljmcnulty · Jul 28, 2014

I paid £30 and got john Glynn to value mine and only took a week

But the point made here is not the time, but the fact that the valuation is out of date next week?

How does this work? I'd guess that, in the event of a claim, you could argue an increased value if the market had doubled, and the insurer could argue a reduction when the market crashes?

I assumed that the valuation was the base point today, not a fixed value for exactly 12 months. If prices shift 10% either way then that would be taken in to account.

The point isn't so much to have the perfect value to the penny, it's to avoid an exceptional car being insured only for the book value. When my car had a no fault claim, that was a book value of £1250, but an agreed value of £7K. That's the reason for getting a valuation...even if the price has gone up 10% since my valuation, I'm better off by over 4 times!

I think any self-cert valuation is open to the insurer challenging it. Mine certainly has a clause to the effect that it has to be a "reasonable" value, and that's completely open-ended.

How does buildings insurance work? We get a policy that says our house will cost XXXX to rebuild, but that would change over a year?

mcgc0 · Jul 29, 2014

Interesting... I work in a business that surrounds itself in risk calculation, risk mitigation and costs blah blah... If the snapshot in the time of the (market) valuation is what it is then make sure you're there with it. Any insurer (that's still in business) knows very well all the statistical event likelihoods against losses and payouts etc, and if they thought any agreed valuation asked for seemed statistically risky we wouldn't even be talking about it. End of the day, the extra premium and profit for this statistically outweighs the unlikely event. Book valuations on any classic car is complete and utter b******s imho and is meant for the second hand car geezers down the Friday night auctions on 'unseens' with no guarantees - you won't see Coys or Bonhams talking book prices...

We are all passionate about our classics and insurance money doesn't get anywhere near the hours and attention spent. All the performance 'improvements' or stock new parts lavished is only the half of it. Today my agreed valuation is £30k, and I know I would need close to that (today) to get the same personal investment and 'how I wanted it' back again. Max out as much as your insurer will allow. And I speak out of personal loss...! [&o]

Hacki · Jul 29, 2014

Here in Germany the limit for agreed value without evaluation is 20 k EURO. The insurance company will accept that as agreed value, if it´s reasonable and you send them pictures and data of the very car. For more expensive cars the evaluation by a sworn valuer is mandatory.
I have a few cars, most of them worth less than 20k EUR and it worked out fine as mentioned above. The more expensive cars are / will be evaluated by an appraiser - the insurance company has accepted / will accept that value then also.

I pay only a little extra premium - compared to what they would pay in case of a claim. Book values are nothing compared to the current market values now. And the way the market changes at the moment means that it will probably be necessary to have new evaluations every year.

Maybe it´s interesting how things work over here,

rgds

Hacki

mcgc0 · Jul 29, 2014

Book values are nothing compared to the current market values now. And the way the market changes at the moment means that it will probably be necessary to have new evaluations every year.

So true... Indeed, I send updated images of the car each time I ask for the increase. All we want at the end of the day is the like for like replacement cost covered. Yes, I can only assume the big number RS's etc might require a known specialist of that marque or model. This is where I think PCGB is out of touch and subjective with what anyone can do themselves - look up on pistonheads or autotrader the average price for any condition 911.

polar964 · Jul 30, 2014

Thanks for the replies and the discusion it has generated.
Insurance is always open to interpretation and in some cases misguided judgement.
Ultimately if the unfortunate we're to happen we all would hope the insurance company would payout. That being a realistic figure based on what it would cost to replace like for like. I would hope that an insurance company advertising that it specialises in classic car insurance is upto speed with the current market.
When I phoned Heritage/norton earlier this week, the young lady I spoke to appeared totally out of touch, reiterating only what was written in the company standard literature. I also contacted the club who tell me there is a six week back log on valuations!!
I've since spoken with another insurance company who were extremely helpful, appeared to understand the market and will provide a valuation agreement within a day, once I provide the necessary details. Now that is service.

simkin911 · Jul 30, 2014

Polar964, can I respectfully suggest you apply for the pcgb valuation too and see if it does indeed take 6 weeks?

It would be interesting to see if the club is able to respond within it's own turnaround. My own experience is that I was told it was a 6 week turnaround but it was nearer 6 months with several calls in between. However, this was a couple of years ago. In the meantime, it is wise to look elsewhere.

ray stobbs · Jul 30, 2014

hi paul i have just had a repeat valuation off the club told them what i have had done since the last valuation went from 17k to 21k that was in october last year and now know that is already out of date classic line are ok with self valuation up to 20k but require a club or pro valuation after that my premium went up 20 pounds for the increase but feel it will be more this year when i sugest 30k to get a car sum were near mine

pauljmcnulty · Jul 30, 2014

Contacted the board again tonight, hoping to get more clarification on this. [&o]

Hacki · Jul 30, 2014

To me this is a very reasonable statement from the 964RS Register:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=834698

And don´t we see the first standard 964s at a high price level with a tendency to go through the roof?

http://www.germansportscars.net/GB/cars-for-sale/detailview/porsche-911-964-ca/467/

polar964 · Aug 1, 2014

Hi Ray, how's tricks?
Classicline will carry out a valuation for £20 based on the info and photos you provide. I'm looking to change company's this time. The last few phone calls I've had with Heritage has disappointed me. Got the impression they weren't bothered whether they had my business or not. No problem, I'll go to someone that does.

Steve,
To be honest, a 6 week turn around is not good enough and from what I've heard it's more likely to be longer. If you waited 6 months that's disgraceful.

Does anyone know how many people the club have doing this work and whether certain individuals performing the valuation specialise in certain models?

George Elliott · Aug 1, 2014

Paul,
e-mail a couple of respected dealers, tell them you are in the market for a 964 C2 Manual Coupe, prefer Polar with Black, full history original panels. Ask for a ball park budget figure and availability.....[

]

It will start with a 3

Hope this finds you well

George

pauljmcnulty · Aug 1, 2014

Does anyone know how many people the club have doing this work and whether certain individuals performing the valuation specialise in certain models?

1, and no. [&:]

That's why it's disappointing that so many register representatives have refused to get involved, or suggest someone who could do it on their behalf. We should be the best-placed people to know the values: well ahead of people offering a general valuation service for all models, at a high cost.

ras62 · Aug 1, 2014

I had a great quote from Classicline today some £150 cheaper than the Heritage renewal quote. I asked to be passed over to their agreed value expert and we had a chat about prices / the market etc. His advise was that given the current sale prices he would have no issues if I valued my car between 25-30. Pictures and info to be provided and if he had questions he would call. He agreed my car could be valued higher depending on engine rebuild or respray etc, he was very knowledgeable on recent pricing and also flexible. The agreed value is fixed for two years but if the market was to rise during this time a new higher valuation could be agreed over the phone.

polar964 · Aug 2, 2014

Hi George,
Good to hear from you, hope all is well with you and you 964?

Yes it's bizarre. 12 months or so ago the likes of pistonheads only had around 50 964's for sale. Now they are in the 80's and the price's as you state are in the 30K+ for respectable ones! Turbo's and RS's are in another league! wow

Paul,
Yes it's a shame that the club is unable to provide a better level of service in this regard. Perhaps with time things might improve.

Rob,
Classicline appear to be the favourites at the minute. Heritage have lost it as far as I'm concerned. Although I'm not sure that I agree, that if a car has had a respray that it is necessarily a reason to increase its value. Originality and quality of finish would be a more valued attribute in my opinion. The same for a rebuild, if its not broken, not smoking, no lose of power, good compression, etc etc, but hey, lets not go down the re-build debate!

colin129 · Aug 4, 2014

I'm taking my car in for service at JZM this weekend & I've asked them to value it for insurance purposes, which I understand they won't be charging me for.