+ve camber on rear wheels

[Justin85]

My 89 S2 has a fair bit of positive camber on both rear wheels, and I was wondering if this was normal? AFAIK the car is on it's original suspension (115k) and isn't modified or anything. All the images I've seen of S2's seems to show them with a little neg camber, which is what I'd expect for a RWD car...

Any thoughts,

Thanks,
Justin.

 

[Guest]

according to standard spec, it should be -25' +/- 30' (so i suppose in theory it *could* be +5' )

however, there was an update to the MY90- cars to a spec of -45' +/-20' .

personally, i'd go for the later spec.....

BTW, the ' symbol is minutes not my dodgy way of writing degrees! (i'd love to see how long a tyre lasts at 45deg camber! [] )

 

[Fen]

Further than that I'd go for the more extreme end of the permitted specs, or at the very least I wouldn't go more positive than the ideal value for a MY90- car (regardless of the car's age). You won't get unever tyre wear if you stay within the permitted range but you will get more sure-footed cornering. It sounds like spending £100-£150 on a proper alignment by someone who has the gear, knows how to use it and knows how to adjust a 944 would be well worth it; it will feel like a different car when it's right.

 

[eastendr]

I used to use Northway tyres in Colindale. Hunter DSP setup - probably the best equipment in the world (Allan at weltmeister has it as well).

Last alignment after fitting new castor mounts worked out about £60+VAT. A full align and custom settings on Turbot after stripped suspension cost about £150.

I now use Motorpreparation in Finchley. Similar DSP computer laser alignment and before / after printouts. Cost from £35 + VAT

I currently use 1.5 deg negative all round.

http://www.cannell.co.uk/944%20Turbo%20-%2010.htm

HTH

Rick.

 

[Justin85]

That's an interesting post Rick, thanks.
In May 2005 (before I got it) mine was set up at White House Motors in Reading, and I have a print out identical to yours in the link.

Your setup shows the following (mine currently in italics)

Camber
LF: -1º57' (-0 º27') RF: -1º54' (-0º23')

LR: -1º56' (+1 º19') RR: -1º43' (+1º24')

Rear Toe values are also miles apart, at + 0º29' total for you, and -0º07' for me!

Has it been set up by monkeys then?

Justin

 

[Fen]

It looks more like yours was just measured rather than set up. Why on earth would anyone deliberately put negative camber on one side an positive on the other (oval racers aside, perhaps)?

 

[Justin85]

PM sent Andrew - as you typed that reply! You've answered some questions already!

 

[eastendr]

ORIGINAL: sweetea

Hi Rick,

Doing full Geometry, Corner Weighting, Ride Height and Tracking takes time - how can anybody do it for £35 + VAT? It takes us between 4 - 8 hours to achieve the right result (= perfect handling car). It can take an hour to unseize a stubborn fastener on the rear suspension sometimes.

I've had it done on the same type of machine (at the OPC) - but never ended up with any accuracy and often incorrect readings when the car was back on the road (i.e. suspension etc. fully settled).

We set it up, drive the car and set it up again until it remains spot on. It's a process that requires a certain amount of care and attention to do it properly (as Justin has discovered).

Regards,
Andrew

Turbot was set up at Northway on Hunter DSP 400. 1000 miles later when the laser alignment equipment was installed and calibrated at Motorpreparation, the Hunter engineers used Turbot to test and train. The settings were nearly identical from the DSP400 at Northway Tyres 1,000 miles previously. I only quote facts and from experience of having several cars 4 wheel aligned over the years. We have made several geometry changes to turbot over a period and in each case the geometry hasn't shifted significantly between these changes being made. I have now reverted to the settings that I started with.

The Motorpreparation price of from £35 includes full 4 wheel computer print out and front tracking. A full alignment on baby WUF (944S) would have cost me about £150 if I has paid retail for it - that after changing all the brakes all round, front suspension several times, wheely / tyres and some rear bushes.

I suppose that having all the correct equipment and full tyre fitting machines / computer balancing / 4 poster ramps etc all helps keep the end user cost down. This price does not include corner weighing, but then my cars are not set up as dedicated track cars.

How did you compare the settings of the car after it had been back on the road ? Was it back on a dsp alignment rig ? If you're saying that the Hunter machines are inaccurate, what is it that you use that is more accurate to guage the results ?

I just has the rear suspension aligned on my red mid-engined thing and it cost £55 for the rear alignment because of a semi-seized adjuster, then another £35 for the rest of the work which included before and after computer print out and front tracking adjusted as well. It now handles pin sharp, although the 4 new tyre may also have helped !

Rick.

 

[944Turbo]

Rick said

red mid-engined thing

It seems to be missing from the sig?

My local tyre place also has an impressive alignment rig (with prinouts like Ricks) but not sure what make. It was bloody expensive though even the special flat floor lift was big money. They also do the ferraris for the garage in Lyndhurst.
I run 1.5 neg rear and 3/4 degree negative front. Factory toe and the edge of the limit for castor.
Tony

 

[John Sims]

Beaky needs setting up again since the sump (and cross member) were removed. Sounds like I need to go a see Pete.

 

[Diver944]

LIL was last aligned at -1.5 degrees camber all round, with toe and caster left as standard. This was an attempt to reduce extreme outside wear on my soft track tyres whilst reatining sensible wear on the road wheels. It did seem to be working but I would still like to run more negative camber on track as the front track tyres still wore out prematurely on the outer edge.

Now that LIL is becoming more of a track and weekend car I may plump for -2 at the front or just get some adjustable camber plates. My alignment was done at New Duston Garage in Northampton who have all the kit and do a few of the local 944s and 968s as well as older 911s. IIRC they charged from £75 + vat (though mine was £150 due to some badly seized adjusters at the rear [8|])

 

[Fen]

I run (from memory) -1 degree all round and can up that to -2.5 on the front with the camber plates. That made a huge difference at Oulton when I adjusted them at lunch on a day when conditions were pretty constant; a tendency to understeer on the faster corners disappeared. I'm now wondering if my rear camber is too small (camber envy?[&:])

 

[eastendr]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Rick said

red mid-engined thing

It seems to be missing from the sig?

Don't want to be accused of being a 'double agent'

[] [] [] []

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: eastendr

.............I just has the rear suspension aligned on my red mid-engined thing and it cost £55 for the rear alignment because of a semi-seized adjuster, then another £35 for the rest of the work ......
Rick.

£90 for a four wheel alignment on a Ferrari has got to be cheap in anybodies books. []

 

[eastendr]

ORIGINAL: John Sims
£90 for a four wheel alignment on a Ferrari has got to be cheap in anybodies books. []

Shut up, you tart []

Obviously you would get a 50% discount for the Reliant Robin [] [] []

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: eastendr

Obviously you would get a 50% discount for the Reliant Robin [] [] []

A very sought after motor as people seem to snap them up for racing. Setting up camber on the front can be very tricky I'm told. []

It's not that easy at the back either as I believe it has a live axel.