Vitesse MAF

[DivineE]

Damn I was hoping for a second this thread was someone selling one 2nd hand! Not sure why you'd have a map sensor as well? unless there's something clever going on you'd usually have one or the other not both? The piggyback allows you to fine tune and adjust the set up to your car. Extremely helpful if your car is non standard and you want to make adjustments without paying for a rolling road. No idea how you use it because I never actually got around to playing with mine before I sold the car but that's the theory If the kit you have came of a standard car and your car is the same spec your probably running as close to perfect as you need and if you don't fancy the hassle your best leaving it in the attic in case you ever fancy doing more tuning. However if the kit came from a car that wasn't the same as yours your going to need to get learning and adjust it to your set up or your fuelling may be incorrect.

 

[TTM]

Did you buy new or used? The kit comes with rather thick installation sheets.

 

[edh]

Doesn't John use MAP for boost control? I think he added some more feature to the s/w that ran off MAP. (I just had a standard Vitesse MAF + chip, and it ran really well) If you have a wideband then V-flex and the PB give you the ability to fine-tune your install. Am I right that you have a non-standard turbo? Did John supply you with maps specifically for your setup?

 

[rickware]

bought it new from john at vittesse, very helpful man. I have put an aet hybrid turbo on the car and paid a fortune for remaps and tuning that never really worked. I explained to john all the mods and he sent the kit over to me with various images pre installed. It has a MAP sensor included which I think is for measuring boost and then it uses the piggyback to modify the ignition timings. The dilema I am having is the results are so spectacular with the standard setting that I am thinking that installing the next stage is a bit of a waste of time for my level of abilty to get the most out of the rest of the functions.

 

[barks944]

You can probably get some gains by installing the kit. But if you are happy with it how it is then it might not be worth the effort. How much did it cost you delivered to the UK?

 

[rickware]

£1900

 

[edh]

I think John is very helpful- both with install / troubleshooting and with tuning - if you can send him the datalogs, he can help you with the maps.

 

[rickware]

I have just installed the Vitesse MAF with new injectors and fpr but it has also come with a MAP sensor, piggyback and vflex software. The results on the MAF are amazing as it feels like a different car but has anyone got experience with installing the MAP and piggyback etc. It seems to me that these might just be complicating the setup without really getting any further gain. Any suggestion / feedback from members with one of these installed.

 

[TTM]

I take it you have what is called "V-flex" images on the chipboard, with which the MAP sensor must be used. With the MAP sensor you can : - set a peak boost value over which you can decide to have the ignition cut in case the engine overboosts - control boost with the optional boost solenoid that apparently you didn't purchase? In my case this made a BIG difference in power delivery over controlling boost manually with a knob plugged in dual port with a Tial wastegate. In my case it was necessary to use the PB to get the fueling right - while the base maps were fine for most situations, the engine was running pig rich on part throttle as my turbo has I think a much higher flow/boost ratio than what is implemented in the base maps. If your AFR is fine, then you may not really need to install the piggyback.

 

[barks944]

Thom, I think you mean that as you have a 3.0 litre you flow more air at 1 bar for example than a 2.5 litre. I thought though as it is a MAF system it shouldn't matter as you are measuring the air flow directly so the AFR should be exactly what its specified to be under those conditions. Don't the fuel maps for a MAF system just specify the required AFR and then the computer works out how much fuel to inject for a given flow measurement. This is one of the benefits of MAF as you can tune without having to re-map.

 

[sawood12]

The primary purpose of the MAP sensor is to map ignition according to boost pressure. IN the stock setup ignition is not mapped against boost pressure and therefore is very conservative. With Vitesse's kit with the V-Flex he can also map ignition. IN theory this provides much better performance overall and should be able to unlock more HP. As with normal ECU chips it is actually the improved ignition mapping that provides the benefit. Fuelling is largely a function of the air being sucked into the engine. It is actually quite common to have this sort of MAF/MAPsetup in modern cars. MAF's are the best sensors for fuelling and manifold pressure for ignition. Ford turbocharged engines employ both MAF and MAP's in this configuration therefore I assume that the vast majority of other manufacturers cars will too.

 

[Diver944]

I echo what the guys have said. Vitesse is fantastic kit and the new VFLEX with MAP sensor as well as piggyback raises the bar even further. Install it ASAP and get ready for your car to take another step forward. Johns basic chips get you close but the extra functionality of the bolt ons will get it 100%. You really need a wideband to keep an eye whats going on though

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: barks944 Thom, I think you mean that as you have a 3.0 litre you flow more air at 1 bar for example than a 2.5 litre. I thought though as it is a MAF system it shouldn't matter as you are measuring the air flow directly so the AFR should be exactly what its specified to be under those conditions. Don't the fuel maps for a MAF system just specify the required AFR and then the computer works out how much fuel to inject for a given flow measurement. This is one of the benefits of MAF as you can tune without having to re-map.

The ratio between the flow ahead of turbo and the flow after the turbo in the intake will vary from a turbo to another (depending on turbo trim, regardless of engine capacity) and when the MAF is located ahead of the turbo in the intake line it doesn't know about pressure/flow in the intake manifold, so this is still a hard data that has to be implemented in a MAF set up.

 

[barks944]

Isn't the maf usually installed pre turbo? A maf should respond to changes in pressure as pressure effects mass. Also the mass flow is the same pre and post turbo. The pressure and flow rate have change though but that doesnt matter as you know mass.

 

[TTM]

Paul, have you upgraded to the V-flex?

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: barks944 Isn't the maf usually installed pre turbo? A maf should respond to changes in pressure as pressure effects mass. Also the mass flow is the same pre and post turbo. The pressure and flow rate have change though but that doesnt matter as you know mass.

MAF's can be installed after the IC too just ahead of the throttle. You can only do this with some MAFS though due to oil contamination - Vitesse is one MAF that can be mounted in this configuration. I'm not sure if it actually gets you any advantage though. You are right that the mass flow in the engine is the same - the air sucked through the MAF is only going one way - through the engine. As it is compressed the mass flow will remain the same as the volume through the compressor reduces. The diameter of the inlet of a turbo is always larger than the outlet.

 

[barks944]

So then it shouldn't matter what turbo/boost you are running with a MAF system it should always be in tune shouldn't it. Thom were the AFR's set rich on your MAF system by default? I have been thinking about getting the MAF without the piggyback but if it runs rich without a tune then this puts me off a bit.

 

[sawood12]

Tom, you are right. With a MAF SYSTEM it shouldn't matter what your boost level is - the system will compensate and fuel accordingly. However a MAF SYSTEM is so much more than just the MAF Sensor. The vast majority if not all MAF kits apart from the Vitesse kit are not true MAF systems - they basically are just using the MAF sensor as an AFM. The piggy back computer on the Vitesse MAF kit processes a true MAF signal and commands fuel accordingly, so with the Vitesse kit you can adjust boost pressure and it will maintain the same tune at any boost level. This is not true of other MAF kits which will require a new ECU chip to map according to the boost pressure if you change the boost pressure - e.g. the SciVision kit.

 

[barks944]

Do you need the piggyback for true MAF? I thought the daughter board that came as part of the basic MAF kit gave true MAF conversion. Are you saying that without the piggyback the vitesse MAF is like the other offerings?

 

[sawood12]

You will need some form of external computer as the stock ECU is not capable of processing a MAF signal. It hasn't got the physical inputs and hardware configuration to do the task. As far as I understand it, the computer will need to take some inputs from the stock ECU, some from the MAF sensor, do the MAF calcs in the external computer, and splice back into the stock loom to command the injectors from the external computer rather than the ECU, leaving the ECU to do everything else it usually does. All the kits vary. I know that the SciVision kit comes with a small piggy-back 'computer' but clearly all it is doing is converting the MAF signal to something that the ECU can interpret. The SciVision kit used to come in two kits - a 1 bar kit and a 1.2 bar kit, the difference being the ECU chip.