Wastegat Christmas

[robwright]

Hi all,

I am happy to announce that I am the proud father of a TIAL 38mm watsgate, MBC and maxHP chips courtesy of Vic Tampauer in the States. May thanks to Vic for what appears to be a quality product. Trust me I am an engineer and I know my onions. I have blagged a ramp this Satuirday and am planning on getting it installed. I have a couple of questions though. I Vic's installation diagram he refers to the banjo connector for boost feed to the wastegate. My question is where is this feed to come from? Is it the banjo bolt that is on the inlet pipe to the intercooler? I think this is for the boost gauge or I may be wrong. As far as I can see the feed currently connected to the factory wastegate comes diredtly from the intake manifiold but again I may be wrong. If afore mentioned banjo connecor is to be used what becomes of the feed that is attached to it now? I also assume that if said banjo is to be used it must still also feed to wher it is going now. If anyone can explain in more depth I would be immensley grateful. I only have the ramp saturday so it needs to be right on the day. I may also be barking up the wrong tree. All comments gratefully welcomed. If anyone has a piccy that would be even better. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[PSH]

Hi rob

Ok first I'm assuming that the Tial is a DPW , that is dual port wastegate... assuming that then this is how things go IIRC.. it's been a lonnnnnnggg time...lol

ok , from the banjo bolt on the intercooler pipe that goes to the turbo you run a pipe to the top of the wastegate. Put a tee piece into this line to the boost controller MBC and then go from here to the port on the side of the wastegate.
Right then.. under the inlet manifold is the amel valve or timing valve I believe porsche call it, this controls the boost for the ecu, this is no longer needed and in fact it will stop you increasing the boost by much if not removed, so detach from the metal pipe that runs under the inlet manifold to the front where it connects to the other intercooler pipe that runs between the throttle and intercooler.

This is basically it , your MBC then controls the boost which of course will rely on the modified chips to give correct fuel mixture, a word of warning to get the most from your car you need to book a session on the dyno so a chip can be custom made. The chips that are being sent to you will be a somewhat guess of whats needed, they may be pretty good and they may also not be. I would advise you install a wideband sensor so you can check what your AFR is under high boost. Until then try not to get to carried away with that MBC...[]

Think I've remembered it well enough , i'm sure others here will correct me if I've forgotten anything , feel free to contact me on my mobil below if you are unsure of anything when you install it..

Best of luck and enjoy....[8D]


Pete


PS:.. On reading Paul's post below it seems the Tial connects differently from the Lindsey Racing DPW in as far as the pipe from the banjo for my DPW goes to the top and not the side, so go by pauls rather than mine in case there are some other differences.[]

 

[Diver944]

Hi Rob, congratulations on the addition to your family []

Before you install the wastegate, make sure that all the bolts for the adaptor plates are fully tightened to the wastegate. A few of us forgot to double check this when we fitted TiAL wastegates, only for them to start coming loose and ruining the gaskets.

Here's a few pictures to help you with connection:

The banjo bolt is on the back of the black pipe that leads from the turbocharger into the intercooler. It is pictured here (but ignore the brass Reliaboost valve) and should lead to your MBC controller. Note that the metal pipe originally connected to the banjo on the right is now sealed up. It leads to the cycling valve which is bypassed when running a dual port wastegate

This diagram shows you how to connect an MBC into the system for both single and dual port operation. The diagram on the left shows exactly how my Reliaboost was connected in my original photo

 

[robwright]

Paul fantastic pic mate just what I was after. As far as I can see at the moment there is a pipe connected to the top of the factory wastegate. As far as I can tell it is connected to the inlet manifold just underneath at the rear of the engine. What is to become of this pipe (unless I am getting confused with the labyrinth of pipes that there seem to be)? Is there a method of setting up the boost as the manual boost controller Vic has supplied seems to be a quite standard pressure regulator which has many turns from fully closed to fully open?

 

[Diver944]

Oops.

I had forgotten about the original pipe that leads to the factory wastegate. That comes from the other side of the cycling valve that you bypassed in my original post. It is superfluous in this setup and can also be blocked off.

My memory is rusty here but basically the standard wastegate receives air pressure from the cycling valve which is controlled by the DME and KLR. You are bypassing that system when you install a Dual port wastegate and aftermarket chips so you just need to block both pipes. Aftermarket chips also remove the overboost safety feature so you need to be very careful setting up your boost level as you have no safeguard to fall back on if things go wrong.

Make sure you have an accurate boost gauge - NOT the dash gauge and wind your MBC all the way to the minimum. Go out for a drive and in 4th gear where possible, do a number of full throttle runs up to the redline and gradually open the MBC until it hits the boost level your chips were designed for. You may find that in winter you make slightly more boost (because of the cold dense air) and you might have to wind it back in a little.

Your car will make more boost in 4th gear, so if you err on the side of the speed limits and set it up in 3rd gear be aware that you will make more boost in 4th

Hope that makes sense []

 

[robwright]

Ok guys I think I have just about all that I need now. Have to admit I am getting quite excited LOL. 36 years old and excited about a red sports car. I know what my ex would say!!! Hold on that's probably why she is my ex!!! Would love to dyno the car and get custom chips but what with all this and new balance and timing belts (essential I think when shoving close to 300 HP through belts I don't know the age of) I am running around £500 thanks to the crap dollar value. Still a bargain though for what I am getting I think!!! Would love to get it done in the future and appreciate if anyone has any suggestions as to who might be good for the job. I am currently living in Peterborough. PS when setting up the boost I pressume i should measure it at the banjo connector or anywhere else suitable to get a line in. I have a Druck (German for pressure) gauge in work for locomotive brake testing that is digital and I am sure will be more than man enough for the job. Vic tells me the controller is good for 15 - 18 psi so was womdering what I should be aiming for without risking blowing my head gasket???

 

[PSH]

A car running just standard boost always has a possibility of blowing a head gasket Rob, I would try to stay at no more than 1 bar for now or 14.7psi as your max until you have a wideband AFR sensor fitted. As for getting it setup on a dyno there is a good one at silverstone that we have had dyno days at before can't remember name though..lol , personally I use Wayne Scolfield of chip wizards fame although he's hard to get hold off and not the best of time keepers, having said that if you do a search for his name you'll find he's generally excepted as the best there is , certainly for the 944 a view that I totally support as do most Porsche racing drivers from the Porsche cup a few years back.


Pete

 

[sawood12]

You should be aiming for a boost level that the chips have been mapped for. The ECU doesn't fuel according ot boost pressure and assumes a certain boost pressure. If you set your boost pressure to something different than what the chips are mapped for then you will be running rich or lean. You need to go back to Vic and ask him. I'm running 1 bar Promax chips and have had no adverse effects whatsoever. I also remembered that I had to plug in some form of loop in the wiring loom. Can't remember what it was for but if you follow your loom up from the ECU's you'll see a couple of plugs dangling out of the loom not connected to anything. In my kit I got a male plug to plug into one of these which basically had a wire that looped round and effectively connected two of the pins together. This was to be fitted if you were running a DPW.

You are best setting your boost pressure up with the MBC in thrid gear up a slight gradient. Mines been running rock solid ever since I set it up. I think you'll enjoy the results!!

 

[robwright]

Scott I am familiar with the plugs that you mentioned but didn't receive any such wiring in the kit from Vic at Pauer Tuninig. Paul in a previous post suggetsed getting out and spanking it to red line in 4th gear to set up the boost, which I think will probably have the same effect as your uphill third suggetsion. Has anybody else any input into the shorting link thing that Scott has just talked about? Guys I know this has probably gone on a little but I do want to get this right. As I understand it from previous posts this evening overboost protection will be removed with aftermarket chips running in dual port configuration. Your patience is appreciated lol.

 

[sawood12]

I don't think it really matters if you set the boost up in 3rd or 4th, but you need to do it at WOT with load on the enigine (i.e. up a gradient too). 1st and 2nd gear wont generate enough load on the engine unless you're going up a very steep hill. As I'm sure you appreciate that with turbocharged cars the more load the engine is under the harder the turbo works (one of the characteristics of turbocharged cars I love). If you set it up with too little load on the engine then your max boost pressure could creep up to more than you wanted once the engine is under load. I guess you just need to suss out from your boost gauge under what conditions max boost is achieved and held. By the way you're also better off with an aftermarket boost gauge. I find the in-dash one is accurate and consistent, but the scale is not graduated finely. I got a mate to sit in the passenger seat to keep an eye on the boost guage while I drove. I started with the MBC right on the lowest setting and gradually over a about 5 runs crept the boost up to 1 bar.

 

[PSH]

I'm sure that when you receive your chips Rob that they will include full instructions as to how the setup that you have bought works. Different company's approach things in different ways, as Scott said some require this loop to be pluged others require the FQS switch to be adjusted, I know I have had to do both over the years although not with my current setup well certainly not with the FQS.
Try looking at www.lindseyracing.com they are the biggest supplier of upgrades for our cars and even if some may differ from others they have a very good Tech Garage link that shows how to do many things in pic form.

Hope this helps and don't worry it's not as daunting as it first seems, we have all been where you are now mate.. looks like a nightmare but with a little guidance it's fairly easy

Pete

 

[robwright]

Lol I received the chips before the wastegate. They came direct from Russell Berry in the States, who apparently supplies Lyndsey Racing. The wastegate I had to wait for as it got held in customs while I got bummed for import tax and VAT w*****s!!!! No instructions with the chips and although I am more than capable of fitting them didn't realsie that there may be some set up instructions. Thanks for the last comment anyway I am new to this game and in the past horsepower has been something that you bought off the shelf and not worked for lol. I think I prefer it this way!!!

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Hi Rob, congratulations on the addition to your family []

Before you install the wastegate, make sure that all the bolts for the adaptor plates are fully tightened to the wastegate. A few of us forgot to double check this when we fitted TiAL wastegates, only for them to start coming loose and ruining the gaskets.

Vic supplies his adapters with bolts drilled for lock wire - so less chance of coming loose

The vac connector on top of the old wastegate is ideal for fitting in place of the banjo bolt - it's a bit too big a thread for most vac connectors.

The Tial connects in the opposite way to the LR DPW (otherwise their instructions are pretty good)

 

[PSH]

They came direct from Russell Berry in the States, who apparently supplies Lyndsey Racing

Aha.. that makes sense as if you look at the instructions for fitting chips on the lindsey site the pic shows 951max written on top of the chip, so guess you can at least use their instructions for your chips..[]

 

[robwright]

Hi Ed long time no hear. As you have probably guessed I am nearly at the end of what seems a pretty long journey lol. Must admit I couldn't have done it without the help of you guys on here. Sounds a bit corny I know but true. Yes the wastegate Vic suplied is completely assembled and equisetly lockwired. Due to his history as an aircraft engineer me thinks but a truly bloody excellent product from what I can see. He now also supplies all the banjo connecotrs, 'T' and 'J' connectors and hose necessary for the job. The gaskets do come at an extra cost though. In reply to Pete's last post yes the chips have Max 951 stickers on them, which as far as I can gather was what the 944 was originally marketed as in the the states "The 951". Should I prepare myself for a slating now for getting my facts wrong lol.

 

[PSH]

"The 951".

You are correct Rob[]


Pete

 

[robwright]

PS Ed not in any way meaning to rub it in but had the aircon pressure tested and regassed by a guy in St Noets 3 weks ago and it's still blowing icey cold. In fact better than some more modern cars I have had. Whole job cost me 70 quid. For all of you out there don't take no s**t from guys telling you that they will have to replace everything and will cost around 1500 quid. Absolute hogwash. There is a direct replacement gas for R12. It costs a tiny bit more than R34 but still does exactly the same as the R12. Please pass this on to anyone that is looking for aircon fix.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: robwright
Yes the wastegate Vic suplied is completely assembled and equisetly lockwired.

Do you mean the adapters are already attached to the wastegate?
If so I would still suggest to take off the bolts and add threadlocker. They do come off without threadlocker.

 

[rcsalmons]

If you look at the Lyndsey website as I remember the Tial wastegate connections are the other way around to the unit they supply so be careful.

You have exactly the same set up as I fitted on my 944T.

Rich