Menu toggle

What engine oil should i use?

Guest

New member
Help got no idea from the book as it seems to cover most types.
New to owning a 944 had it a few months and decided to go for an oil change, right its a 1986 californian import plain 944 2.5L donr 62K miles. Can anyone help/guide me as to whats the best type of oil to use? also i'm gona start keeping a check on the level - do these cars tend to 'use' oil at all?
 
Thanks Simon spoke to your college today - top advice - will be placing an order shortly.
 
ORIGINAL: oilman

Use 5w-40 or 10w-40.

Fully synthetic will cost more but is better.

Cheers
Simon

Why is synthetic better? Ok, it lasts longer than mineral oil and can take more heat without breaking down, but the idea that it's "better" isn't true. If your engine runs at the correct temperature and you change your oil regularly, you will get better results with a high quality mineral oil than synthetic. That's why almost all of the racers that I know use mineral oil in their engines (that's what I've used in all of my race cars).

In addition, an old engine like the 944 was designed to use mineral oils. Synthetics are great in a modern car that goes 20,000 miles between services, but for an old car that gets serviced a lot more frequently, mineral is the best way to go.

James
 
In my experience a synthetic holds pressure better, when hot every mineral oil I have used has dropped pressure signicantly.
I first switched to synthetics about 15 years ago when mobil1 was reccomended to me by a Mini Racer who did his own engine rebuilds. He was very impressed how the engines came apart with no wear and clean, much improved over all the mineral oils he had tried previously. Other than price - which may be false economy - I do not see the advantage of using mineral oil.
Tony
 
This should help,

Ive posted it many times before and its a long one but well worth reading as it explains some of the adavantages of synthetics.

SYNTHETICS vs MINERALS

Oil is the lifeblood of your vehicle's engine. For decades conventional petroleum oils have been providing adequate protection for all of our vehicles.

The key word here is adequate. Petroleum oils, for the most part, have done an adequate job of protecting our engines from break down. If you change it often enough, you can be relatively sure that your car will last 100,000 to 150,000 miles without a serious engine problem - maybe even longer.

The real question is, why settle for adequate when something better has been available for about 30 years?

Today's engines are built for better performance, and, although petroleum oils are designed for better protection and performance today than they were 10 or 20 years ago, there is only so much that can be done. Today's engines need high performance lubricants, and the only true ones available are synthetics.

Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are manufactured from a refined substance, contain paraffins (wax), sulfur, nitrogen, oxygen, water, salts and certain metals. All of these contaminants must be refined out of the basestock in order for it to be useful for use within a lubricant.

Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is done. It simply isn't economical to continue to refine the oil again and again to remove more impurities. If this was done, petroleum oils would cost as much as synthetic oils do.

There are many components of petroleum oil basestocks which are completely unnecessary for protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to enhance the lubrication properties of the oil. In fact, most of these contaminants are actually harmful to your oil and your engine.

Some of the chemicals in conventional petroleum lubricants break down at temperatures well within the normal operating temperature range of your engine. Others are prone to break down in these relatively mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway, especially since oxygen is one of the contaminants within petroleum basestocks.

These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be impossible or excessively expensive.

When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and maintains little heat transfer ability.

In addition, petroleum oils contain paraffins which cause dramatic oil thickening in cold temperatures. Even with the addition of pour point depressant additives, most petroleum oils will begin to thicken at temperatures 10 to 40 degrees warmer than synthetic oils.

As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for minutes after startup. Obviously, significant wear can occur during this time frame.

Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they fall far short of synthetic oils. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of molecules which vary greatly in size. As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy molecules work like a blanket around hot components.

There is also another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their effectiveness. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case with molecules of differing size.
Theoretically, it might be somewhat similar to putting one layer of marbles on top of another (if this could easily be done). If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient.

In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of controlling heat in your engine. Considering that motor oil does nearly 50% of the cooling of your engine, that's not a good thing. But,

This being said, petroleum oils are "adequate" for the purpose of protecting your engine, if you don't mind a shorter vehicle lifespan, inconvenient oil changes, or decreased engine performance. Under normal circumstances, most vehicles lubricated with petroleum oil should run satisfactorily for 100,000 to 150,000 miles without serious incidence.

If you like the hassle of changing your oil regularly, and you are only looking for marginal performance for the next 100,000 miles or so, petroleum oils are definitely the way to go.

Assuming that you don't relish the idea of changing your oil every 2,000 miles or and are looking to keep your "pride and joy" in tip-top condition then these are the main areas where synthetic oils surpass their petroleum counterparts.

Oil drains can be extended
Vehicle life can be extended
Costly repairs can be reduced
Fuel mileage can be improved
Performance can be improved

Synthetic basestock molecules are pure and of uniform size. This is because synthetic basestocks are designed from the ground up with the sole purpose of protecting your engine. Nothing is added if it does not significantly contribute to the lubricating ability of the oil.
In addition, in top-quality synthetics, no component is added which might be contaminated with any substance that might lessen the lubricating qualities of the oil. In other words, manufacturers of these premium synthetics implement very strict quality control measures to insure no contamination.

Not only that, synthetic basestocks are designed so that the molecules are of uniform size and weight. In addition, synthetic basestock molecules are short-chain molecules which are much more stable than the long-chain molecules that petroleum basestocks are made of. This significantly adds to the lubricating qualities and stability of the oil.

EXTENDED OIL DRAINS
Stable Basestocks
Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Moreover, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction than petroleum oils which have the non-uniform molecular structure. The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant.

Higher Percentage of Basestock
Synthetic oils contain a higher percentage of lubricant basestock than petroleum oils do.
This is because multi-viscosity oils need a great deal of pour point depressant and viscosity modifying additives in order to be sold as multi-viscosity oils.
Synthetic oils, require very little in the way of pour point depressants and viscosity modifiers. Therefore, synthetic oils can contain a higher percentage of basestock, which actually does most of the lubricating anyway. More basestock leads to longer motor oil life.

Additives Used Up More Slowly
Petroleum basestocks are much more prone to oxidation than synthetic oils, oxidation inhibitors are needed in greater supply and are used up very quickly. Synthetic oils do oxidize, but at a much slower rate therefore, oxidation inhibiting additives are used up much more slowly.
Synthetic oils provide for better ring seal than petroleum oils do. This minimizes blow-by and reduces contamination by combustion by-products. As a result, corrosion inhibiting additives have less work to do and will last much longer than within a petroleum oil.

Excellent Heat Tolerance
Synthetics are simply more tolerant to extreme heat than petroleum oils are. When heat builds up within an engine, petroleum oils quickly begin to burn off. They volatize. In other words, the lighter molecules within petroleum oils turn to gas and what's left are the large petroleum oil molecules that are harder to pump.
Synthetics are resistant to this burn-off. They will tolerate much higher engine temperatures.

EXTENDED VEHICLE LIFE WITH FEWER REPAIRS
Heat Reduction
More often than not, vehicle life is determined by engine life. One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient of friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils.
Less friction, of course, means less heat in the system. And, since heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
In addition, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils do not cause the "blanket effect" which was mentioned earlier. Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.

Greater Film Strength
Petroleum motor oils have very low film strength in comparison to synthetics. The film strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 500% to 1000% higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity. In fact, believe it or not, even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, a 0w30 or 5w-40 weight synthetic oil will likely have higher film strength than a 15w40 or 20w50 petroleum oil.
Thus, even with a lighter weight oil, you can still maintain proper lubricity and reduce the chance of metal to metal contact when using a synthetic oil. Of course, that means that you can use oils that provide far better fuel efficiency and cold weather protection without sacrificing engine protection under high temperature, high load conditions. Obviously, this is a big plus, because you can greatly reduce both cold temperature start-up wear and high temperature/high load engine wear using the same low viscosity oil.

Engine Deposit Reduction
In discussing some of the pitfalls of petroleum oil use, engine cleanliness is certainly an issue. Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. They're better than they used to be, but it still occurs.
Deposit build-up leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the number of costly repairs that are necessary. Since synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability than petroleum oils, they leave engines virtually varnish, deposit and sludge-free.

Better Cold Temperature Fluidity
Synthetic oils and other lubricants do not contain paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life and fewer costly repairs.

IMPROVED FUEL MILEAGE AND PERFORMANCE
As indicated earlier, synthetic oils, because of their uniform molecular structure, are tremendous friction reducers. Less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance.
Any energy released from the combustion process that would normally be lost to friction can now be transferred directly to the wheels, providing movement.
Vehicle acceleration becomes swifter and more powerful while using less fuel in the process.
The uniform molecular structure of synthetic oils has another performance enhancing benefit as well. In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. Certainly, the engine loses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones.
Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off.
More importantly, when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected.

And breathe.
 
Gosh that was thorough.

I use Royal Purple from Promax.

Thirdly...is that THE James H?![8|]

Cheers All,
 
Without hard numbers (e.g. measured mpg improvements, increase in MTBF, etc.) it's hard to take such an essay particularly seriously - it would be possible to write something similar about why mineral oils are better (e.g. the large molecules form a protective blanket around the cylinders). Surely there is some study available somewhere that shows the benefits in black and white?

Tom
 
ORIGINAL: scz

Gosh that was thorough.

I use Royal Purple from Promax.

Thirdly...is that THE James H?![8|]

Cheers All,

THE James H? Which James H is THE James H? [:)]

In what context?
 
James Hunt (former F1 world champ) sprung to mind, but I woul be pleasantly suprised if you can post from beyond the grave. [:)]
Tony
 
Btm line is if you use oil of the correct type/viscosity for your engine and cange it on a regular basis (or atleast change the filter every 6k miles) then your car will be fine. Its only really at the extreme end of things where it gets a bit sticky, i.e. using a vehicle in the artic at -50 deg or racing your car in the desert in +50 deg.

I am not 100% convinced in the real merits of expensive oils, i know there are technically better, but how many of use buy a new car and intened to keep it for 20 years/200k miles where ou might notice the benifits.
.
Saying that all my turbo ever had was 0w-40 Mobil 1.....
 
Obviously it is personal choice but if I was using a car in a track environment, I would not use anything other than synthetics as they are so much more thermally stable and therefore resistant to shearing (losing viscosity) which would be my main concern over mineral oils.

Cheers
Simon
 
The way I look at it with all the money we lavish on our cars over a typical year an extra £20 or so a year for a top spec synthetic oil pales into insignificance, so you might as well. It's certainly a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of petrol we put through our cars each year!

I had an oil leak in mine last year so I put in Magnatec on the basis that it is a halfway house between a bog standard mineral oil and a top synthetic oil and most of it ended up on my drive. Now i've had the leak fixed I will be upgrading to a fully synthetic at my next service. On the basis I was topping my car up with a litre of fresh oil so regularly I also did without a 6k mile interim oil change!

I also treated the engine to Slick 50 at the last service. Don't know if it is any good - from all the people I trust for car advice it is roughly 50/50 as to whether they think it is good stuff or a waste of time. Again for the sake of £20 I thought I might as well as it can do no harm.

Can't see how older engines are more suited to mineral oil. I'm not sure how the age of the design of an engine will make it more suitable for mineral oil rather than synthetic. A cam is a cam and a bearing a bearing and I can't see how their designs have changed much in the past 20 yrs or so.
 
Hi James, thanks for clarifying that! The photo on the left got me thinking, and I didnt realize the "other" James was deceased, oops...[8|]
There does seem to be a preference amongst owners of 1970s 911s for example, for mineral oils.
 
That's right. I'm another legendary racing driver called James H [:)]

I've always used mineral oil in my racing cars, and I've always been told to do so by my engine builders. All of my friends do the same in their racing cars.

I suppose the thing to remember with a racing engine is that the oil gets changed a lot more frequently, so degradation isn't really an issue. You're more interested in getting the best performance for those few laps than saving a few pounds on not having to change the oil so frequently. Also, I don't know of any racing engines that have gone 150,000 miles without a rebuild [:D]

Oilman gave a very detailed description of why he thinks that you should use syntheticoil in a road engine (thanks for that, very informative). That doesn't change my opinion though. Old engines like ours were designed to run on mineral oil, so I will continue to run it on the oil it was designed to use. I will also continue to change it frequently to ensure that it is giving my engine optimum protection.

James H (the still living non-legend)
 
Interesting that the top synthetic oils are often labelled motorsport or race. I am reasonably certain F1 teams use a synthetic. Race engines are rebuilt more often than road engines because they are under greater stress and a failure means a DNF. A thinner oil will reduce friction, better oil will reduce the wear. I am surprised there are racers still using mineral oils.

Tony

 
ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

PS what happened to the old 944S engine? [;)]

The original engine had a cambelt failure.When the head was removed, one of the bores was scored, so it was a new engine job.

That's when I got the car. I owned a Porsche 944 for 2 years before I ever drove one[:)]
 

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Back
Top