What front struts for Beaky.

[John Sims]

Went down to see a local Racing Team, Porsche, Lotus etc specialists this morning. They are 15 minutes away so I thought I'd have a look, get Beaky's oil changed, and get him checked over while on the ramps.

There were a couple of minor oil weepings to have a look at but, one of the things that came to the fore, was play in the front struts..[].So what am I going to do now?

Beaky isn't going to become some Total Track Slag, so it isn't worth going for the full KW set up. That said, some adjustment might be nice. Leda isn't very expensive, but I have heard that it is fragile and needs rebuilding regularly. I think it costs too much to require that level of ongoing attention.

Note I have late Turbo non M030 fronts currently.

I enquired of my OPC what M030 struts would be - £504 +VAT each, plus all the other bits quickly knocked that into a cocked hat.

Phoned PorscheShop who suggested front struts were £11. Stupidly I didn't bite his hand off but suggested I wanted front struts not bonnet supports. Good start! Apparently, they have Koni adjustables for £275 each. However, these are listed as S2/Turbo and I don't think they are going to fit my hubs. PorscheShop say they will. "How are these better than M030?" I asked. "M030 aren't adjustable" said he. "That's funny, I thought they were." said I. I am somewhat laking in confidence at this point. Koni's site don't list 90- Turbo.

I am assuming I have Fitchel+Sachs struts at the moment (951 343 032 12 & 031 12) These are £192.60+VAT OPC price.

I tried phoning Bert but it's POETS day so he wasn't available - probably bobbing around in a boat somewhere.

So what would you do?

 

[Diver944]

1. Wait until I can afford KWs and buy my freshly refurbed M030s (note - it will be a long wait [])

2. You can have my old fichtel and sachs front struts converted to the adjustable Koni inserts (DIY or I know Jon does this), then I'll have your old ones in exchange when you fit them

3. Something else

 

[chrisdenton]

John

Are these any good

Part No 951 343 031 06 and 951 343 032 06

If they are I'm sure we can come to an arrangement as they are sitting doing nothing.

 

[John Sims]

I like the sound of #2. I might take you up on that one. Can you spray them yellow first so that they look nice. []

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that PorscheShop is wrong and their adjustable option isn't going to fit.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: chrisdenton

John

Are these any good

Part No 951 343 031 06 and 951 343 032 06

Hi Chris,

They are listed as 944 - M474 up to 89 so I don't think they will fit my hub assemblies - thank you for the thought though.

 

[edh]

John

Going by my conversations with them last week, Leda will probably last you around 30-40k between rebuilds.

apart from the longevity issue, I think they are pretty good on the road & excellent for track use.

 

[sawood12]

John, why have you decided against KW's? I was considering M030's some time ago but when I looked into it I realised that the spring rates of M030's are soft in comparison to modern day sports cars, and the other options I was considering all cost near as damn it the same as KW's. By my reckoning the KW's, although stiffer than M030's should handle roads due to their flappy valve damper mechanism. The ideal option in my view would be KW variant 1's or 2's which don't have all the adjustable bells and whistles of the V3's, but unfortunately they are not available for 944's.

The only downsides to KW's that I can see is you will need to re-index your TB's so there is added cost associated with that, but i'm convinced that my TB's are as soft as marshmallow after all these years so am using this as an excuse to refresh the TB's as well. The only thing i've not decided is which top mounts to use. I fancy the rose jointed ones from ESS (which I think you've got). So all in all it'll be an expensive job but I think i'll have the best road/track compromise set-up.

By the way I thought all struts were interchangeable between the later turbo models and the early turbo/S2's? Aren't the later turbo non-M030 struts the same as the early turbo/S2 struts? As far as I can tell from teh PET they are the same i.e. there is no alternative part number for non-M030 struts for the turbo post a certain date.

 

[Fen]

I agree with Scott. KW is definitively not too much for the road. I wish you'd gone out in my car while it was running as you'd probably have a different view I think.

Also in terms of struts I think the ones you have found will fit. I didn't think there was a strut fitment change from '87- ABS offset to the end of 968 production. Your hubs are from an '89- car, but they bolted straight up to your '87 struts didn't they?

 

[John Sims]

Thanks for your comments guys.

Good point on the fitment Fen. My hub assemblies and struts both came from a breakers - off the same car but at different times, so at some point either the hub or the strut was in place with the original components. I can't remember which way round.

I have nothing against KW's and, if money grew on trees, I'd have them like a shot. I certainly wouldn't pay £1200 for M030 fronts in comparison.

The main crack is the £££££'s. Beaky has been a sponge over the last couple of years with gearbox and turbo and sundry other bits being done. I seem to be spending money on him in order to enjoy him and then not having the money to go out and do it - I want to get back some of this vast store of kinetic enjoyment.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

......Good point on the fitment Fen. My hub assemblies and struts both came from a breakers - off the same car but at different times, so at some point either the hub or the strut was in place with the original components. I can't remember which way round.....

However! From previous experience I know that there are subtle differences that aren't always apparent until you fit the wrong part. It does make me nervous that PET lists specific dampers pre and post 1990 for example.

That's not to say that the later fitment is necessarily better.

 

[944Turbo]

I replaced my standard sachs boge ones with standard sachs boge (around £135 each) and techart (eibach) springs and they were a big improvement over the worn ones. After around 40K miles they started to feel tired again, which was when I went for the ledas - I got them on a group buy for around £800 quid (all 4) they are one of the lower specs though. If I had known the kws were available for around £1400 then I might have saved a little longer.
The ledas are relatively cheap to get rebuilt and they can be modified at the same time.
I also believe all the turbo ABS offset hubs will fit with any post ABS strut. There are some differences in overall spring diameter spring perch though later cars are thinner as the 968 - not sure when the s2 changed (IIRC nick fearns has the thinner ones) or if the turbo changed with the switch to ABS,
Tony


I have a set of sachs/boge I planned to put on ebay as ideal for the koni insert mod.
Tony

 

[Hilux]

KW is definitively not too much for the road. I wish you'd gone out in my car while it was running as you'd probably have a different view I think.

I did and thats why I didnt bother having my Mo30`s refurbed/re-springed. I dropped it off at Promax today and I`m picking it up next saturday with KW V3 and Weltmeister ARB`s (and a coupla other bits as well) I believe it will transform the car if Fen`s was anything to go by [8D][8D]

I have nothing against KW's and, if money grew on trees, I'd have them like a shot. I certainly wouldn't pay £1200 for M030 fronts in comparison.

As a former westy owner you`ll know the difference a decent set of dampers can make. The Mo30 I`ll have to say I have never experienced properly as I have to assume mine (I believe were refurbed a long time ago) was tired with sunken springs and the dampers `baggy`

So what is Mo30 worth today????? Old hat in my book. Note that the GT2 and GT3 brigade swap their standard bits for KW []

A side by side comparison between Mo30 and KW will be interesting but I`m convinced even the doubters would be amazed at how much better `planted` the car is.

 

[John Sims]

OK then Chappies considering I have relatively new adjustable rears, I have ordered a pair of Koni adjustable fronts from PorscheShop at £660.14 inclusive. Let's see what happens.

I do have an underlying feeling of dread - but that is normal after any transaction of that magnitude.

 

[944Turbo]

Is that with the springs? IIRC the konis have a conical spring that is narrower at the top - might also need top perches.
Tony

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Is that with the springs? IIRC the konis have a conical spring that is narrower at the top - might also need top perches.
Tony

See, that feeling of dread was right - no that was the struts. [] I'll see what turns up and then probably end up paying for springs and additional postage.

Some sort of foot note on their site might be nice like PS These struts are sod all use unless you purchase the springs as well.

 

[944Turbo]

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news [] IIRC they are blimmin expensive springs as well.

Tony

 

[Hilux]

the konis have a conical spring that is narrower at the top

???????? Do they, why?

they are blimmin expensive springs as well

They would be if they were conical.............

Found a good photo.............

the konis have a conical spring that is narrower at the top

You are right, they are conical and narrower on the perch/bottom

 

[sawood12]

Are those M030's? If so they are progressive rate springs which is probably why they are conical.

 

[Hilux]

Are those M030's?

Yup

If so they are progressive rate springs which is probably why they are conical

Dunno Scott. Progressive (I thought) will offer wider/closer spring pitch variants within its height or twin springs with differing rates. If a spring is conical with the same pitch and gauge is it progressive? Must admit I never come across conical springs before.

 

[sawood12]

The pitch of the spring (distance between coils) and the diameter of the spring as well all effect the stiffness of the springs. Obviously Porsche elected to have a conical spring to achieve the progressive rate.