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What is the Benefit of "Club Sport" Spec on GT4 ..?

CarreraGTS

CarreraGTS

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Gentlemen

After some googling it appears that the roll cage and Club Sport Spec even using Carbon Bucket seats lifts the overall weight by 8kg in comparison to non Club Sport Spec and 18 way adjustable sports seats, even greater with Standard Sports seats!

So therefore what is the realistic benefit of adding Club Sport to your Spec - If weight saving was important it serves no purpose, better to go with Ceramics, CF Buckets, Lithium Battery. Fire Extinguisher and delete Air Con ....?!!!

Your educated thoughts are appreciated ...

Andrew
 
you get a roll cage , so if you want a roll cage you buy CS pack, it's that simple.

 
Mr Demon - Wow, thats illuminating ... Can you please tell me what is the benefit of a Roll Cage given that the Power to Weight Ratio is worse ... You are a Track day man so i presume you understand the Pro's and Con's ..?? I would like to order it but need to know the Positives against the weight saving Negatives ... Many Thanks - Andrew

 
I guess it's the increased safety angle if doing track days etc ??

For my driving an extra 8kg would be totally insignificant, so a non issue.

 
Aside the safety issues a roll cage can often increase shell stiffness - This will depend on the design of the cage and number of mounting points.

A roll cage can provide proper mountings for a harness - there are many advantages in a harness over and above safety.

A thinly padded shell seat, together with a harness, lock you into the car so you can feel what the car is doing to a much higher degree. The first time I tried this combination (not in a Cayman) was quite disconcerting as I thought the suspension had gone wrong. You feel so much more of what is happening it is like having the sensory cotton wool removed from your ears. You also no longer have to hang on the steering wheel or jamb your foot into the foot rest, the latter not always convenient if you also want to change gear.

If I was in a position to make the choice with a GT4 it would be cage and seats in the blink of an eye. In many respects I'm surprised there is even the option to have it without. If you want the soft option get an S. If weight is an issue eat a few less pies; 8 kg isn't an impossible target for a diet.

 
Andrew,

It's only a half cage bolted (rather than welded) behind the front seats, so will provide some (minimal?) additional stiffening to the rear structure as well as giving the driver and passenger better roll-over protection in the case of a serious accident.

Apart from the LWBs, a 6-point harness, fire extinguisher and preparation for a battery master switch are included, so you're probably ready to go if you want to do some Club racing. If not then I can't really see the point in the package unless you're a wanabe racer/track junkie/poser, in which case you'll have deleted the radio and aircon and specified the PCCBs to save weight.

Jeff

 
The Cayman's 42,000 Nm/° torsional rigidity surpasses that of the 991 Coupe's 30,400Nm/º

so perhaps the cage's advantage is ultimately safety in case of extreme damage and harness mounts?

 
If you are doing track days then I would say a cage is a good idea if you plan to use harnesses. Most people don't realize that if you wear a harness with a crotch strap and don't have a roll cage then if the roof compresses you take the full weight on your head and neck as your body cannot compress/slide due to the crotch strap. The effect is even worse if you also wear a HANS device.

 
I believe the harnesses attach to the panel behind the seats in the GT4 and not the cage as on the GT3, just for info.

 
Since the Clubsport package can only be optioned with the LWB seats, I am guessing that the two have been safety approved together ...

Some circuits such as Spa are now insisting that cars on track have a fire extinguisher.

The Clubsport package also includes some strengthening of the shell and pick-up points for the bolt in cage and possibly also that full harnesses --- the carpet is also cut from new and has the cut-outs for the front cage if required as an additional option.

It is usual for Porsche to be very coy about all the changes that combine in the final specification --- for example they never mentioned the wider exhaust manifold of the Cayman R --- etc ?

My Cayman R did not have a roll cage, --- the Clubsport package was the first option I went for on my GT4 !

For serious track use, it would in my view be foolish not to --- but clearly a safety benefit also on the road.

Does anybody have a shell stiffness figure for the standard car, v. that with rear cage and full cage ?

 
Chris,

Interesting you say that only the Clubsport equipped cars have local stiffening of the BIW for the roll-cage and harness. That sounds like a bit of a production nightmare but I suppose that's possible since it's a relatively small volume of cars which will be hand fettled post body production.

Because the rear cage is only bolted in place rather than physically welded to the body structure it's doubtful that the torsional stiffness will be significantly higher than base, but the full (bolted) cage will certainly have a positive effect on both the bending and the torsional stiffness. Unfortunately, only Porsche will be able to quantify the effects for us.

Jeff

 
Many thanks Gentlemen for your responses. I don't have any experience what so ever of "Track Days" but would like to give them a go and build some experience and some new friends "step by cautious, step" ... I am a Professional in another Sport so typically have little experience in other domains even though i am an expert in my own ... thanks again. Andrew

 
From the pictures the rear cage seems to have very little, if any, triangulation in its base spec. There appears the be further mounting points for diagonals where the primary advantages of rigidity are derived.

I haven't checked the current Blue Book but would be surprised if the cage would be eligible for club level motor sport without, a minimum of, a diagonal to the rear hoop.

I'll admit to being a little underwhelmed by Porsches rear hoop design (in base spec). It certainly doesn't seem as purposeful/advantagious/sustansial/rigid as that in the GT3. I have no doubt it would be a good starting point once the missing tubes are added. Regrettably, without, I have to be siding with the racing car wannabe look rather than the true and significant advantages a proper triangulated cage could afford.

I do agree wholeheartedly with the comments of not using hanesses without a cage.

 
Interesting, it would be great to have some figures to support --- I specced this car a long time before anybody had seen it, and I added to it what my CR lacked.

Roll cage, harnesses, plus a few frills ... and for the GT3 chassis to really work, the one thing I don't want is shell flex !

I love it.

 
As a newbee, i don't wish to sound silly... But surely Porsche and in particular Porsche GT Dept would not make or design a roll cage "Unfit for Purpose" as it would be 1) Breach of Specification 2) World class Embarrassment and 3) I have just ordered Club Sport Spec .... Your qualified thoughts are most appreciated - Andrew

 
Andrew,

As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, it's more of an unbraced roll hoop supported by a couple of longitudinal struts rather than a roll cage; so mainly a cosmetic item in my opinion.

Chris,

Roll cage, harnesses, plus a few frills ... and for the GT3 chassis to really work, the one thing I don't want is shell flex !

As Ralph has pointed out, torsionally the Cayman's much stiffer than the 991 (42,000 Nm/° torsional rigidity cf the 991 Coupe's 30,400 Nm/º) so nothing to worry about either with or without the rear cage.

Jeff

 
this is how the harness fits, nothing to do with the roll bar

many people only ordered the CS so they could fit a harness, but you can fit a harness with NO ROLL CAGE (once you can order the securing bits)

image_zpstg2fa9d6.jpeg


 
If ????

I wonder what the full list of chassis mods for the Clubsport is ?

I remember seeing a list of the 993RS mods --- it was a substantial document of dozens of pages, if only a few lines in the brochure ..

 
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