What Mod's to squeeze more power from a 944 non turbo?

[Guest]

What tuning options are there to squeeze a bit more power out of the 944?
I have had a better flowing exhaust fitted, By the way dont remove the first silencer box as it kills the mid-range torque!
Also I am waiting for the bolt on cone filter kit eliminating the standard airbox.
Are there any better Cams to fit and also is there a better airflow meter available?
I read in the Porscheworld mag' a bloke got a kit including a replacement updated airflow meter and brain, But when he dyno'ed it the results were worse!
Also whats the maximum oversize pistons you can get away with on a 2.5?
And who supplys them?

 

[Guest]

The most cost effective way of getting more power is to sell your car and buy a Turbo. By the time you've done anything to a non turbo, the amount that you'll have to spend to get any appreciable increase in power, it would be cheaper (and more reliable) to just go and buy a turbo car.

There is a lot you can do to tune the turbo for very little money.

 

[Fen]

I believe EMC can rebuild the 2.5 8v to get about 190bhp from it. I don't know what they do, but I believe it's effectively a blueprint, balance and headwork to get better flow and probably increased compression. I imagine they use a remap to make sure it works at its best. As you can imagine that costs and James is right; it's cheaper to buy an S2 or a Turbo. Probably for that reason nobody does too much for the 2.5 NA cars in terms of pistons and things, unless you get custom ones made. If you like NA then get an S2 and later you can get a supercharger kit for it from Ninemeister if you want more, or if you don't mind the way a turbo delivers its power then they are even better for extracting maximum power as cheaply as possible. It is possible to improve greatly on the standard Turbo's nasty latency problem with a decent wastegate, 3" exhaust system and one of the MAF kits available from a number of sources and it then drives much more like an NA car with the standard turbo an would still make around 300bhp.

 

[sawood12]

You could alway go for either a supercharger kit or an American V8 kit but these are very costly (more than the difference in cost between your car and a turbo and a few substantial mods) and you will not have the uprated M030 brakes and suspension you get with the later Turbo's. Even the non-M030 220 turbos and S2's have uprated brakes and suspension over the N/A 944's (not sure about the 2.7 S's though).

 

[Guest]

I understand what you are saying about getting an S2 or a Turbo, But I live on Lanzarote which is part of the Canary Islands and as far as I know there are a couple of 924's and my 944!!
Cars are scarce on this island and therfore hold good secondhand values. But buying one from UK or Germany is easier but the importing taxes are stupid , About 25% of what they think the car is worth, Which is above top book price!!
Thats why modding is cheaper. I have seen a couple of websites in America offering better Cam's but at a price so I might just forget about it!
Thanks for the info though.

 

[chrisdenton]

Personally, having spent some time in the Canaries, I would go for an S2. Its low down torque and more usable power would be more suited to the twists and turns of Lanzarote.

Other than a new exhaust and possibly a new AFM or MAF you'll have more than enough performance and you wont be drawn in to the modding financial hell that a turbo will inevitably bring you [&:]

 

[Guest]

I know a chap with a blown engined turbo, But customs have seized his parts so he will probably never see them again!! He has also got a normal 8v 944 with no frontend left!! (tourists turning round on main ringroads!!) I will stick with the 8v at the moment.
Just a thought , Would a 16v head fit on my block?

 

[DivineE]

Fen Said: "I believe EMC can rebuild the 2.5 8v to get about 190bhp from it."

DO NOT let EMC touch your engine!![] Sorry for the contradiction Fen but I have a short video clip of techniques used by EMC for anyone considering using them and speak from experience. Contact either John from Serdi in London (01895 232215) their machinery and workmanship is excellent and they know 944's very well but are conservative when it comes to what they will modify.

Or for the more mad scientist approach speak to Jon of 9XX in Bournemouth (01202 462951) his knowledge of the cars and methods of extracting those precious extra few bhp is mind boggling!! I am yet to find something he doesn't know or hasn't thought of and I have found him to be very willing to consider any idea's you might have no matter how outrageous they might be. Further still all of his finished products have been the most powerful and refined examples of 944's I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing speak to any of his customers for a reference.

If you are considering any other tuner out there please tell me who it is on this forum before you hand over the keys and chances are I will have had some experience of them and will be able to advise you accordingly.

Ben

 

[Fen]

Fair enough - EMC is received wisdom as I understood that they built quite a few of the engines being used in various 924 and 944 cars running in the race series. I believe Dave W got his bult by them also?

 

[944Turbo]

Removing weight would give you a better power to weight ratio (and improved braking and cornering)
Tony

 

[Guest]

Because you can`t get much more power out of a Lux (I drive the lux auto, allegedly the slowest version of 944, and have owned several manual versions) the best thing to do is get the best out of what you`ve got without spending a fortune, eg K&N panel filter, performance chip, new ignition leads, dis cap, rotor arm, vacuum pipes, billet oil filter etc. That little lot will cost a few hundred pounds and your car will perform noticeably better. Also change all the fluids and make sure you flush out and refill with the appropriate top quality fluids, brakes and steering included. I drive mine daily, she`s 110% reliable and as quick as most. Enjoy your Lux, great car, Tonys weight reduction idea above is a good one too.

 

[Guest]

In that case, why not buy a secondhand S2 or turbo in the UK and take the relevant bits off it. You could have the engine, brakes and suspension stripped off and sent over to you, where you would put them onto your current car. It would still be way cheaper than trying to squeeze more power out of the 2.5 8V. Then you could sell the rest of the car off for spares.

Alternatively, buy an S2 abroad in the same colour scheme as your current car, take a driving holiday in your car and swap the VIN and reg plates over before you come back []

James

FAO Moderators et al. I was joking about the VIN swap.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: DivineE

DO NOT let EMC touch your engine!![]

What are the problems with EMC? I had a new engine from them a few months ago. It's still running ok.

 

[DivineE]

Without meaning to upset unnecessarily their equipment and hence method of machining on bores is not what I would recommend with as delicate or as soft a type of bore as a 944. Kevin may be ok with the n/a engines but turbo's (especially tuned ones) are a different matter and Serdi's machining method and equipment is infinitely more accurate, sterile and reliable for a comparable cost. Kevin once told me that he struggles to build turbo cars that will run over 1.bar boost without them having very short life spans and although it may seem harsh I feel (having been in many turbo's running reliably a lot more than that level of boost) that this may be due to the quality of finish on the bores of the blocks he produces rather than an inherent limit of the engine.

 

[Guest]

That's a relief. Mine is a 2.5 16V N/A engine with standard bores and pistons.

I know that he has a thing about turbo engines. He told me several times that he thought Porsche were daft putting a turbo on an engine of that design. I guess you've just filled in a bit more detail.

I'm pretty happy with my engine. It's a bit down on power, but I'm getting it back bit by bit. The AFM was knackered, and I've sorted that out now with the MAF kit (although it now runs like a pig when cold). I'm hoping to get it onto a decent rolling road with somebody who knows what's what with these engines to see what else is not quite right.

I have a nasty feeling that there isn't much power missing now though, and that it's just because I'm used to more powerful cars that it feels like a few of my ponies are running around a field somewhere instead of living under the bonnet [&:]

 

[Big Dave]

So to say,,,,,,

"DO NOT let EMC touch your engine!![] Sorry for the contradiction Fen but I have a short video clip of techniques used by EMC for anyone considering using them and speak from experience."

Is a bit of a generalisation....

As in your next post you mention something about Turbo engines...

When the chap in question was enquiring about n/a 2.5 engines...

Ive JUST recently had my S2 engine FULLY re-built by Kevin at EMC + it now running absolutley wonderfully....[][][][].
Its more powerfull that b4 , it revvs MORE freely than b4,, generally loads better...
You ARE THE only person that ive come across thats had any "challenges" with them....

If its good enough for the Porsche champs racing then its good enough for me....

 

[Guest]

Thanks Dave. You've put my mind at rest.

I went to them through personal recommendation from a couple of people on the Pistonheads forum, and I spoke at great length to Kevin before I got him to rebuild my engine for me. He seemed very knowledgable and extremely helpful.

I know that he doesn't like the turbo engine, so I doubt whether I would ask him to do any work on a turbo for me if I ever had one. However, he did seem very passionate about the N/A cars and as you say, he looks after a lot of the engines for the 944 race series. If his engines can handle a season of racing, I think that they can handle a bit of spirited road use []

When I picked my car up after the 1,000 mile checkup (when Kevin also fitted a new clutch for me for the cost of the parts only), he had a turbo car that he was just finishing off. It was at the Donnington track day I went to the following weekend, and it blew its head gasket on the first hot lap. I guess it shoes that he's more of a N/A specialist [&:]

James

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: JamesH

The AFM was knackered, and I've sorted that out now with the MAF kit (although it now runs like a pig when cold).

I was thinking of fitting MAF but that comment raises a big question mark, is that the Sci-Vision product?

 

[Guest]

It is. Although I still have to fit the PROMax chip, which may well sort out the cold running. When the engine is cold, it runs very rich. Once it's warmed up a bit , it's fine.

I plan to get the car on a rolling road some time to get everything set up properly. At the moment all I've done is to remove the knackered AFM and replace it with the MAF.

 

[Guest]

Sounds like an S2 engine would be the best option.
I am not keen on Turbos anyway, Had a Starion an fitted a Garrett T3 turbo on it but the fuelling was'nt up to the task, And that was going to be expensive!! so I sold it.
They are strict here about modding cars, You cannot fit a turbo to a N/A car, If it is already turbo'ed from the factory you are ok!!!
I wish they sold Nitrous here!!