What would you do ?

[andymorris]

In a rush of blood to the head after spotting a 944S2 for sale on a forecourt and after a rather longer test drive than the salesman wanted I decided I had to have it. Here was the deal. 1990, 120Kmiles ,body work and interior clean and tidy,12mths MOT and Tax and a Full 12k Service. £4500. Since then I have had the cam belt and pulleys done and recently refurbed all the wheels with 4 new tyres.(So about £800 spent).

So now I decide that I would like to up the performance a little and take it to an Independent specialist to get them to do a full inspection on the vehicle to make sure im not throwing good money after bad.

Yep you guessed it there are a few issues.
1. Brake discs and pads need replacing all round.
2. Cams need replacing (Although could replace with high lift)
3. Calipers need overhauling.
4. Sills are rotten and need welding.
5. Various other bits and bobs that should have been picked up on the mot

Other things I need to get done for my own piece of mind is the cam chain and get a proper 12k service because I just don't trust the bastard that sold it to me. Especially as his mechanic informed me there was no problem with the ABS as they didn't exist on the car !

So for this little lot about £3k that would need to be spent in the next 9-12mths.
If I was to have all this done I would have a car that owes me £8300. Im not looking for sympathy, because I should have been more careful, hindsight is a wonderful thing. My question is, is it worth doing ? Or should I bite the bullet and try and sell mine for as much as I could get (although my conscience wouldn't allow me to sell it to anyone without telling them the issues). What would I get for it ? Would this figure and the £3k needed to be spent on the current one get me a Good condition car ? Or is it better the devil I know?

My only other question or gripe is " MOT's are they worth the paper they are written on?" Or should we have a more transparent system?

 

[John Sims]

Brake discs and pads are very much a consumable on a 944 - if you ain't getting through them you ain't trying - so fair enough.

Calliper overhaul is also not unheard of.

The cams are a worry. I'm not up on S2's but wasn't aware that this was an issue. I've certainly never heard of high lift cams for an S2. You might want a second opinion on that.

Rust is a big issue and a personal hate of mine. It is very difficult to get rid of once it starts.

If you are going to tot up the £'s then get rid of the 944 and don't get another one. They are 16+ year old cars and they are Porsches; I'm afraid neither of those headings is going to mean cheap.

If you still want a 944 (and the rust isn't too bad) then you might be better off with the current car, at least you know what you have. Another one may be no better or even worse.

 

[Justin85]

I am in a similar predicament to you Andy. My '89 944S2 needs a bit of attention - I'm in the process of replacing the fuel lines and once they're done the car will be off to have the rusty sills sorted out. Then it will be a cambelt service and hopefully I can get on with driving and enjoying the thing!

I paid a little less than you did about 14 months ago for what was a seemingly tidy car. However, it's still an 18 year old car and had done 114k when I got it. I drove it through the winter and put on 13000 miles in the first 12 months of ownership, despite it being a second car. I think the winter use really accelerated the corrosion in the outer sills. I think £2000 or so should see me getting the sills and the belts service sorted out, and should leave me with a fit and usable car for a good few thousand miles before more attention is needed.

I think the dilemma comes from knowing that if you invest a bit of cash into it and keep it tidy it probably won't lose an awful lot more money. Even with the higher than average maintenance costs (and the odd big bill) you will still lose less than the depreciation on an awful lot of newer cars. A 944 in rude health, is a very satisfying car to drive and own, and I think would be tough to replace for the money.

Justin.

 

[andymorris]

It was an ambition to own one and now ive got one I wouldnt be without it. I also dont mind spending the £'s as I realise that it has to be done.Its just where do you stop or start again.

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Brake discs and pads are very much a consumable on a 944 - if you ain't getting through them you ain't trying - so fair enough.

Calliper overhaul is also not unheard of.

The cams are a worry. I'm not up on S2's but wasn't aware that this was an issue. I've certainly never heard of high lift cams for an S2. You might want a second opinion on that.

Rust is a big issue and a personal hate of mine. It is very difficult to get rid of once it starts.

If you are going to tot up the £'s then get rid of the 944 and don't get another one. They are 16+ year old cars and they are Porsches; I'm afraid neither of those headings is going to mean cheap.

If you still want a 944 (and the rust isn't too bad) then you might be better off with the current car, at least you know what you have. Another one may be no better or even worse.

It will need cams because either the sprockets are worn excessively or the case hardening is failing. Both are more common on the S2 than most owners (like to?) believe.

Don't waste your time with anything other than standard cams. You'll never get better than minor driveability improvements out of an S2 engine short of forced induction.

 

[ross255]

I would have just looked for a better car. At the end of the day you are not even getting a £4.5k car from the stealer, he probley only gave £2.5.

If the car would be in tip top shape after the work, then at least you would have a good car for £8300 and would know exactley what was done.
If you are a bit handy with a spanner you can save a lot of money by doing simple stuff like discs and pads yourself, even things like cams are not that hard.
I would leave bodywork to someone else, as it has to look good, or it ruins the whole car.

And mot's, well I happen to think there fine if a private seller has put it on, but then the guy at the garage probably takes it to his mate around the corner.

 

[andymorris]

Correct fen they are worn.

 

[sawood12]

Well my opinion on these things is pretty pragmatic. It is not unheard of for thousands of people to rebuild old battered cars spending far more than what they could ever be sold for and a 944 is no less worthy than any other car, like an MG, E-Type, 911 etc. If the car has captured your heart and mind then go for it, but do it with your eye's wide open and understand it will cost you and it is money you will never see again. I've spent alot on my car since I bought it but (usual maintenance costs aside) it still has cost me alot less than the very nearly new hot hatch I was thinking of getting at the time and it is provided me with far more smiles per mile!!

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: ross255

I would have just looked for a better car. At the end of the day you are not even getting a £4.5k car from the stealer, he probley only gave £2.5.

Well good for you - and you are probably right about the dealer - but not exactly the most helpful suggestion when Andy already has the car.

....even things like cams are not that hard.

Really? It's funny how many people (even purported Porsche Specialists) manage to screw them up. What's your recommendation for ensuring the balance shafts stay in sync?

And mot's, well I happen to think there fine if a private seller has put it on, but then the guy at the garage probably takes it to his mate around the corner.

I think that was true in the days of MOT pads but now the system is computer based I think it is much harder to falsify a pass.

 

[ross255]

As you say, I am probab;y righ about the dealer, hindsight is a great thing.

Getting carried away, as i dont work on an s2, but the balance shafts are identical on a turbo. There are markings to ensure that they stay in sync, there is nothing difficult about it.
I dont believe the mot is false, but the problem is the tester can either put the falt down on the system or ignore it. No computer system will solve that.

 

[andymorris]

Thanks for your support John. Helpful replies are more appreciated rather than stating the obvoius.

ORIGINAL: John Sims

ORIGINAL: ross255

I would have just looked for a better car. At the end of the day you are not even getting a £4.5k car from the stealer, he probley only gave £2.5.

Well good for you - and you are probably right about the dealer - but not exactly the most helpful suggestion when Andy already has the car.

....even things like cams are not that hard.

Really? It's funny how many people (even purported Porsche Specialists) manage to screw them up. What's your recommendation for ensuring the balance shafts stay in sync? 

And mot's, well I happen to think there fine if a private seller has put it on, but then the guy at the garage probably takes it to his mate around the corner.

I think that was true in the days of MOT pads but now the system is computer based I think it is much harder to falsify a pass.

 

[Diver944]

Sorry to hear this Andy, especially as you had already had the belts and pulleys done and the 'other' garage said nothing about the cams [&:]

The brake disks and pads can be done yourself easily for under £400 in parts, though to refurb the calliper plates can cost up to £100 each depending on whats needed. The rust should be sorted asap as it will only get worse, the cams are something that 'could' let go imminently or go on for a while yet so that is a gamble

It sounds like you love the car and intend to keep it for a fair few years so I would say bite the bullet and get the work done. I doubt you would get much for it if you tried to sell it openy disclosing the faults, so teh best bet is to hang on to it knowing that some of common major faults have now been dealt with and it will not depreciate much over the next few years

 

[ross255]

Dont get me wrong, I am not being unsupportive, I am saying that do some of it yourself.
And if I am stating the obvious, I apologise, but then why buy the car from a dealer.
I am in your neck of the woods, so if your not to far would be happy to take a look if you got stuck attempting some of the stuff.

 

[944s2]

Why do I always here about folk buying one after they have bought[] Mine is bordering on surplus due to moving to city centre of office and no longer using it to commute OK could do with bit of cosmetic work but all the expensive bits have bee done clutch shockers brake & fuel pipes starter altenator radiator etc etc etc Will be honest and say it aint perfect inside but runs fine. Apart from when starter broke has never let me down in six years For someone able to tidy up body and interior would make a great buy

 

[andymorris]

I appreciate the offer ross.

 

[andymorris]

Thankyou Paul will keep you posted on the progress.

 

[cococola]

If you are atached to the car then I would set out a list of order of repair and budget accordingly.Some of the repairs you could probably do yourself to save money.
At the end of the day owning a 944 you would expect to pay out on repairs due to age but overall with the enjoyment of owning one they are worth it.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Don't forget, even if you sell the car and look for another, you'll still have to throw some money at it.

I think it was Fen (?) who suggests allowing £1k at least to sort out any problems you didn't know about when you bought the car, even if you buy a good one. Having had a lot people tell me the horror stories of what they've found at the first service, I'd even think about suggesting £2k! It seems as if all the turbos and S2s are rusting, and if you don't see a problem it doesn't mean it isn't there with rust! Almost every car seems to need brakes, and the "recent belt service" almost never includes work or advice on the cam condition in an S2. Add in the odds and sods that any aging used sports car will need and it's easy to spend £2k plus.

To be fair, it may also be that your indy is over-cautious. I had an inspection on a Volvo once that needed all the discs and pads, but I sold the car 40k mile later with only a set of pads at the end. It does prove the worth of a £200 inspection before buying, though! Did you have a warranty? Or, even go back to the garage for a "goodwill" contribution? I don't think I'd bother, though.

If the car was right for you - spec, colour etc. - then after all the work you'll have a mint S2 with the major jobs done for the next few years, and all for well under £10k. I'm not sure you'd get better if you looked for another car anyway, and realistically could spend as much.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[andymorris]

Hi Paul - The garage did provide me with a 3mth warranty and at the time of purchase they told me they had done the cam belt aswell as a 12k service. This proved not to be the case and I did phone him to say that some of what he promised hadnt been done - All knowledge of the deal was denied. - This garage is about 25 miles from where I live and frankly I've got more important things to do rather than talk the Idiot I dealt with. I just think its a real shame that people get shafted day in day out and I would like to think that not all dealers are the same,and its the few that give the many a bad press, I know I'm in the building game!.

One thing is for sure though at the end of this I will have one very sound S2 - That will be putiing a grin on my face every time the ignition is turned []

Will keep you all posted.

 

[zcacogp]

Andy,

I'm arriving late in the day here, but I'd echo Paul's (Diver944's) comments above. Particularly about the cams and rust. If these are as bad as you have been told, they both need to be done sooner rather than later. Cams, because if they do let go all of a sudden, the bill to get yourself an operational 944 could well be much, much bigger. Rust because it won't go away but will get progressively worse. (There is another thread on here about rust at the mo which has the potential to make interesting reading.)

As has already been said, if you are handy with spanners you could have a go yourself, particularly at the brakes. You could well save some money there. Cams are a bit more involved, but if you are experienced then they may be within your range.

Sell or maintain? No-one here can give you the answer to that one, it's your decision. What I would add to the debate is the fact that now I have owned an S2 for nearly a year, I seriously cannot think of any other car I would change it for. The '"wow factor" has worn off, because I am now used to it. However, when I drive other vehicles I am reminded again of exactly what a fantastic machine the S2 is - I had a spin in my old Golf GTi a couple of months ago (a car I raved about while owning it) and it really wasn't a patch on the S2. A similar thing occured when I got behind the wheel of a Clio 172 last week - here was a much more modern car, supposedly with similar performance but much much more expensive, and I really wondered if there was something wrong with it. Even before you turn the key you realise how many light-years away from an S2 it is.

Don't ask "sell it or maintain it", ask yourself "could I live without it."


Oli.