Whats this stuff (964 racecar) ? h...?
- Thread starter oldtimer
- Start date
paul howells
New member
oldtimer come on!
Remote reservoirs for the rather fancy White Power adjustable shocks! Did you contact Clive about the car? This is looking like a good buy - WP suspension, 993 engine and Motec, RS shell, full welded cage - it would cost a lot more than the asking price to build this based on an old C2.
This is the AFN car - to quote the ad:
"This unique 964 Carrera 2 was converted from brand new into full Cup race spec by AFN Porsche in 1990. As such, the car is fully road-registered as a C2 but was never actually in road-car spec. Campaigned by Adrian Slater in the Porsche Cup, this is to all intents and purposes a proper Carrera Cup, at less than half the price of the factory cars. The car was also raced by Tony Dron, Barry "Wizzo" Williams, Mark Hales and Mark Sumpter. Following an off, the car was fully rebuilt in 1994 with a brand new 1992 RS bodyshell (seam-welded) and fitted with a very substantial welded roll cage. This interesting history is well documented in an article about the car in a period issue of Porsche World magazine (supplied with car).
- Has WP fully adjustable canister dampers front & rear, plus secondary helper springs at the rear and has well-sorted firm suspension.
- Has a fully plumbed-in extinguisher system, and electrical circuit breaker.
- In early 2007, the car was fitted with a 993-spec 3.6 engine, giving more bottom end grunt.
- In 2008, gearbox and clutch were overhauled.
- In 2009, Ninemeister performed a full MOTEC engine upgrade, bringing the stock 993 engine from 273 BHP to a much more convincing 333BHP, with torque rising from 382 to 422 Nm (the before/after engine dyno graphs are supplied with car).
- In 2009, 9M also fitted an 8:32 pinion gear to favor acceleration (top speed on this short gearing is approx 140mph, with easy motorway cruising at 110mph).
- New Cargraphic stainless steel sports silencers"
Given all the changes, there is very little if anyting of the original C2 remaining - it's been re-shelled, engine replaced, Motec, suspension replaced etc. A previous owner had run it in the Porsche Open - when he was selling it back in October 2007 I contacted him with a couple of questions, in particular if it had the alu RS bonnet. Both bonnet and engine cover are GRP.
"This unique 964 Carrera 2 was converted from brand new into full Cup race spec by AFN Porsche in 1990. As such, the car is fully road-registered as a C2 but was never actually in road-car spec. Campaigned by Adrian Slater in the Porsche Cup, this is to all intents and purposes a proper Carrera Cup, at less than half the price of the factory cars. The car was also raced by Tony Dron, Barry "Wizzo" Williams, Mark Hales and Mark Sumpter. Following an off, the car was fully rebuilt in 1994 with a brand new 1992 RS bodyshell (seam-welded) and fitted with a very substantial welded roll cage. This interesting history is well documented in an article about the car in a period issue of Porsche World magazine (supplied with car).
- Has WP fully adjustable canister dampers front & rear, plus secondary helper springs at the rear and has well-sorted firm suspension.
- Has a fully plumbed-in extinguisher system, and electrical circuit breaker.
- In early 2007, the car was fitted with a 993-spec 3.6 engine, giving more bottom end grunt.
- In 2008, gearbox and clutch were overhauled.
- In 2009, Ninemeister performed a full MOTEC engine upgrade, bringing the stock 993 engine from 273 BHP to a much more convincing 333BHP, with torque rising from 382 to 422 Nm (the before/after engine dyno graphs are supplied with car).
- In 2009, 9M also fitted an 8:32 pinion gear to favor acceleration (top speed on this short gearing is approx 140mph, with easy motorway cruising at 110mph).
- New Cargraphic stainless steel sports silencers"
Given all the changes, there is very little if anyting of the original C2 remaining - it's been re-shelled, engine replaced, Motec, suspension replaced etc. A previous owner had run it in the Porsche Open - when he was selling it back in October 2007 I contacted him with a couple of questions, in particular if it had the alu RS bonnet. Both bonnet and engine cover are GRP.
oldtimer
PCGB Member
Thanks for answering the original question Ian ! By the time I've got some confirmation of provenance it will have been sold methinks. It is not an RS and not a cup car but looks like fun.
However , if anyone else is interested then a shared ownership might make sense - PM me. I'm not interested in joining a race series but it could* be the basis of enjoying reduced cost trackdays. I'd certainly feel more relaxed about the hurly burly of the 3 day PCF event and reducing the wear and tear on my RS. Driving the way Sean shows you has its consequences ....
* some imaginative accounting may be needed [
]
However , if anyone else is interested then a shared ownership might make sense - PM me. I'm not interested in joining a race series but it could* be the basis of enjoying reduced cost trackdays. I'd certainly feel more relaxed about the hurly burly of the 3 day PCF event and reducing the wear and tear on my RS. Driving the way Sean shows you has its consequences ....
* some imaginative accounting may be needed [
]
jason
New member
I've been speaking with the owner quite a bit on this and Sean Lockyear has agreed to buy it at asking price subject to viewing.
The problem with the car is it has no history whatsoever.
Just about the only thing with the car is an article on it that was in 911 & PW a long time ago and a printout from the dyno at 9M after the motec was fitted.
From what I can gather the car was a C2 bought in 1990 and then converted to 'cup' spec (take that with a pinch of salt) and raced all its life. The car then had a substantial smash in 94 if I remember rightly and was supposedly rebuilt using a 964RS shell (i'm still waiting confirmation of the shell number). The car was then raced all its life after that.
In my opinion its value is what it is - yes it would cost more to build up a correct 964RSL, CS or CUP from scratch but this is none of those. Its a quite rough 964 C2, then rebuilt using an alleged 964RS shell, has a 993 engine and we don't know the state of the suspension or brakes etc etc are. Paint looks quite rough, wheels i presume are copies and was described to me as having 'superficial imperfections that race cars always have'.
For the price i know where there is a minty mint 964 stripped and rebuilt from scratch for Porsche Club racing by someone very very knowledgeable but never used....
The problem with the car is it has no history whatsoever.
Just about the only thing with the car is an article on it that was in 911 & PW a long time ago and a printout from the dyno at 9M after the motec was fitted.
From what I can gather the car was a C2 bought in 1990 and then converted to 'cup' spec (take that with a pinch of salt) and raced all its life. The car then had a substantial smash in 94 if I remember rightly and was supposedly rebuilt using a 964RS shell (i'm still waiting confirmation of the shell number). The car was then raced all its life after that.
In my opinion its value is what it is - yes it would cost more to build up a correct 964RSL, CS or CUP from scratch but this is none of those. Its a quite rough 964 C2, then rebuilt using an alleged 964RS shell, has a 993 engine and we don't know the state of the suspension or brakes etc etc are. Paint looks quite rough, wheels i presume are copies and was described to me as having 'superficial imperfections that race cars always have'.
For the price i know where there is a minty mint 964 stripped and rebuilt from scratch for Porsche Club racing by someone very very knowledgeable but never used....
Very insightful post Jason. The pictures clearly dont tell all the story. The lack of history, would make the car a gamble, and you would need to know the mechanical parts were solid.
I think we need to hear more about the minty mint one! []
Oh and the lap times arent spectacular, but look honest, I could get within a sec or 2 on road tyres, and prior to getting the car setup. Of course it all depends on the driver.....
I think we need to hear more about the minty mint one! [
] Oh and the lap times arent spectacular, but look honest, I could get within a sec or 2 on road tyres, and prior to getting the car setup. Of course it all depends on the driver.....
ORIGINAL: h_____
Very insightful post Jason. The pictures clearly dont tell all the story. The lack of history, would make the car a gamble, and you would need to know the mechanical parts were solid.
I think we need to hear more about the minty mint one! [
Oh and the lap times arent spectacular, but look honest, I could get within a sec or 2 on road tyres, and prior to getting the car setup. Of course it all depends on the driver.....
I was surprised by the lap times- I was around that sort of pace in the Polo[
]
chfs911
New member
It's a mongrel bitsa!
You should always go the Weissach route.
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=en&id=129133753&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20100&makeModelVariant1.modelId=3&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=964+cup&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=3![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
You should always go the Weissach route.
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=en&id=129133753&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20100&makeModelVariant1.modelId=3&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=964+cup&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=3
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