Which clutch master cylinder?

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

Quickie; the clutch pedal on my 1989 S2 was getting a little slow to return the other day when I first started the car. It seems to have settled and be OK but a new clutch master and slave cylinder wouldn't be a bad investment I reckon, and I could fit them with a bit of a service and general clean-up which is due this summer.

Snagaroo is that the CarPartsForLess (snappy name, eh?) website shows two types available for my car. This:

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Porsche_944_3.0_1989/p/car-parts/clutch-and-associated-parts/car-transmission/hydraulic-clutches/?136330010&1&ed1fe41fafad822800416d7a9db3275735100920&000434

.... and this:

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Porsche_944_3.0_1989/p/car-parts/clutch-and-associated-parts/car-transmission/hydraulic-clutches/?136330050&1&6eae97034964fe0c6e7d87b756844b8fe644d917&000434

The first one claims 'fitted up to 1989 modle year (K chassis)' (sic), the second one doesn't say anything.

The car is a fairly standard 1989 S2. Which one do I need?

Thanks,


Oli.

 

[bmnelsc]

I'd query them on the difference...the "product code" is different - one ending in 10 and one ending in 50 so there should be a difference other than price....

I'd advise avoiding the "up to 89" unless your build code is a K (part of the VIN) - differences are probably minimal but Porsche made some sort of change for the S2. I wish this type of info was more readily available as I'd bet the S2 part is probably the same as the 220 turbo part seeing as the S2 and the 220 turbo are pretty close in HP and torque vs the NA 2.5s.

 

[robdimond]

ECP list them on Ebay with a comprehensive fitment list. The first part is shared with lots of VW and Audi models...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FTE-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-VW-Santana-Passat-Porsche-944-924-Audi-Quattro-90-80-/331321437582

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-968-944-Coupe-Convertible-FTE-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Replacement-Parts-/400774104866

PET is pretty clear, part 477721177 for 89 and 944 423 149 00 for 90 onwards. Lots of parts different between 89 and later model years.

Perhaps one way to tell which setup you have... part 19 on the diagram is different between 89 and 90 (retaining clip for clutch spring).

If you have this one it's 90+

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=99916607502&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz2ueCj77UAhWSLFAKHR0PAAcQ_AUICygC&biw=1215&bih=885

If you have this VW part then it's an 89 setup

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=N90047001&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkmtiOj77UAhUMElAKHZhNBu8Q_AUICygC&biw=1215&bih=885

 

[Monkeythree]

ECP and Carparts4less are one and the same. CP4L has some attractive looking discounts varying day by day but sometimes ECP are cheaper, particularly in their eBay shop which they seem to use to dump stuff they want rid of.

 

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

Thanks for your answers. Thanks particularly to Rob Dimond for his most impressive sleuthing on part numbers and changes. (My one grumble is that it's not part 19 on the PET's - it's part 36 on the early PET and part 22 on the later one, but it's been a very useful identification tag).

I think I have an early clip on the end of the spring-return pin. It doesn't have the central 'finger' of the later clip.

The chassis number is also WPOZZZ94ZKNnnnnnn.

The car was also first registered on 27th June 1989 (which I guess makes it quite an early one).

Does this fairly conclusively point to it being the earlier of the two parts?

Thanks again for your help.

Oli.

 

[robdimond]

'If the clip has a finger, it's not an 89er' is something that every 944 owner should commit to memory, should they ever be faced with this conundrum.

 

[zcacogp]

'If the clip has a finger, it's not an 89er' is something that every 944 owner should commit to memory, should they ever be faced with this conundrum.

That one's going in the signature Rob!

 

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

Update on this. Today I got myself togged up for changing the master and slave cylinders and had a look under the bonnet to see what's what. It strikes me that the Master Cylinder will be much easier on an RHD car than on an LHD one as it's so much easier to get to, and the slave cylinder is not meant to be hard either, so I reckoned I was in for an easy bit of spanner-twirling.

That was until I took the top off the fluid reservoir and discovered it to be completely empty! Yes - not a drop of brake fluid left in there! "Great", thought I, "Stick some new fluid in and job's a good'un!". []

Bottle of new fluid found and decanted into reservoir. Noice ...

I closed the bonnet. And, while doing so, the drips of brake fluid dribbling out of the feeder pipe from the reservoir to the master cylinder caught my eye. Yes, out of the blue braided pipe, down onto the exhaust manifold which is directly underneath it. Why? Because the blue braided pipe has sprung a leak. Great - so the job gets even easier! A new bit of pipe and some cable ties (they are low-pressure connections) and all is well! Photos of the general arrangement are thus;

IMG_20170823_165818 by Oli Parker, on Flickr

IMG_20170823_165809 by Oli Parker, on Flickr

Clearly it won't be this simple; the pipe that is in place is not the Porsche-approved stuff and I have no idea how long it will last. It's cheap stuff, of a type commonly used in medical or brewing applications and I'd be interested in how long anyone thinks it will last with DOT4 in it. And if anyone has some suggestions of a better sort of pipe to use then I'd be keen to hear them.

The other question I have concerns bleeding the clutch; where do you bleed it? I presumed there was some form of bleed nipple on the master cylinder (at the highest point) but there isn't one. Where is it, or do you have to bleed the system using the hard connections to the two cylinders?

Thanks,

Oli.

ETA: It's all wet in the photo as I washed it down to get all the DOT4 off the car - it's not that the leak was so bad it sprayed it everywhere!

 

[vitesse]

Isn't the bleed nipple on rear of slave cylinder which requires removal of starter motor for access?

 

[zcacogp]

Isn't the bleed nipple on rear of slave cylinder which requires removal of starter motor for access?

Dunno, is it?

( )

Oli.

 

[IanK]

That was until I took the top off the fluid reservoir and discovered it to be completely empty! Yes - not a drop of brake fluid left in there! "Great", thought I, "Stick some new fluid in and job's a good'un!". []

Bottle of new fluid found and decanted into reservoir. Noice ...

I closed the bonnet. And, while doing so, the drips of brake fluid dribbling out of the feeder pipe from the reservoir to the master cylinder caught my eye. Yes, out of the blue braided pipe, down onto the exhaust manifold which is directly underneath it. Why? Because the blue braided pipe has sprung a leak.

Oli, this thread is contagious - my car is infected - I remembered reading this last week and just temporarily fixed mine with some pipe I nicked of the garden weed killer spray!

Ian

 

[zcacogp]

Ian,

In that case, sir, I propose a race between our two cars to see which one's clutch reservoir tube fails first! Mine has a head start ....

Oli.

 

[IanK]

Oli,

with a long trip looming, I decided to order 30cm of this to replace the weedkiller pipe...

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/7mm-cohline-brake-reservoir-feed-hose-per-100mm-m-sph8-4

Its not OEM blue but i'm not planning to enter any concourse competitions anytime soon.

Ian

 

[Eldavo]

You can bleed the clutch slave with the starter in place if you wrap your spanner in lots of insulating tape and are very careful where you poke it. (this applies to most things in life). My indy's donit this way as it's quicker so therefore cheaper.

Personally - it's a 15-20 minute job to remove the starter so I'd do that If it it was me as my labour rate is measured in tea and biscuits.

 

[zcacogp]

Ian,

Thanks for the link. I'll check to see how my clear plastic tubing is going some time this week. It's the same stuff as windscreen washer hose and anecdotal reports suggest that it should be fine, but I understand your caution!

Oli.

 

[zcacogp]

Ian,

Thanks for the link. I'll check to see how my clear plastic tubing is going some time this week. It's the same stuff as windscreen washer hose and anecdotal reports suggest that it should be fine, but I understand your caution!

Oli.

 

[zcacogp]

Ian,

Thanks for the link. I'll check to see how my clear plastic tubing is going some time this week. It's the same stuff as windscreen washer hose and anecdotal reports suggest that it should be fine, but I understand your caution!

Oli.

 

[Waylander]

If you get stuck Oli I think I have enough kits to rebuild both cylinders

and the genuine blue pipe from OPC is about £10