Which Cup Shell C2 or RS?

[carreraboy]

Be interested to know who has what and the distinction of number sequence ... early cars were converted at Weissach ... think the late 18' wheel cars were more Zuffenhausen Complete...

Mel I know is an early ...

Hacki?

Ian?

Others?

 

[chfs911]

Des it is need to know only. Any you don't need to know! ;O)

 

[Hacki]

Mine ´s from 1990, actually the last one made of that series. M 700 makes me believe it´s from Weissach. Shellno. is 1506310, bonnet and engine lid numbers matching, doors never checked. Charles can also add info. The C2 shell of a 1990 Cup car (no RS existing in 1990) is heavily modified for race purpose. Is there a real difference in the 964 Cup car shells from 1990, 1991, 1992 and the shell of the poor man´s Cup car, the N-GT? Come on folks, the ball is rolling! Hacki

 

[chfs911]

Try this for starters! It works. http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=256817

 

[ChrisW]

Charles says mine is an RS shell, but it's a very early Vin number ending 9011 from November '91.

 

[chfs911]

I thought we had agreed that was the case?

 

[RSR]

Not sure it really matters as both shells have the same end result with the appropriate seam welding right through the rear transmission tunnel area, additional double skin strengthening and appropriate brackets addedd / deleted. There is a very small difference that allows you to tell the two apart, but its not strength / performance related.

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: RSR Not sure it really matters as both shells have the same end result with the appropriate seam welding right through the rear transmission tunnel area, additional double skin strengthening and appropriate brackets addedd / deleted. There is a very small difference that allows you to tell the two apart, but its not strength / performance related.

Thanks, that´s what I thought all those years I have the car. What´s that small difference you mentioned? Rgds Hacki

 

[SimonExtreme]

My research has led me to believe that all RS shells are the same (basic and N/GT) and that the difference is between the RS shell and a Cup shell. Those differences seem to be to do with the position of mounting brackets for components. Comments?

 

[Ian964]

My shell no is 142-4357 - I don't know how that fits in with any sequence - bonnet and engine cover match. Build date was July 1992

 

[ChrisW]

Mine has the same first three digits and around 1750 earlier, from Nov '91.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: RSR Not sure it really matters as both shells have the same end result with the appropriate seam welding right through the rear transmission tunnel area, additional double skin strengthening and appropriate brackets addedd / deleted. There is a very small difference that allows you to tell the two apart, but its not strength / performance related.

Anorakism abounds on this Forum Paul without it we would be even more sad ... now here is a Bombsell!!! Rumour has it Right Hand Drive Shells are C2 Shells as the factory would not tool up for such limited production!!! Start ripping up your carpet and have a look guys .. Simon Extreme first ... remember the idea of the 92´¨ RS was to homolgate FiA with a minimum 1000 units which the second generation CUP N-GT and RSR were built from .... you are correct Paul does not really matter ... but it´s raining here today ..[]

 

[Tony]

I'm getting confused by all this. The workshop manaual states " the 911 Carrera 2 body-in-white is the basis for the body of the 911 Carrera RS (Base and NGT versions)"and then sets out the conversion process. I can believe the early cup cars may have slight differences, until the RS production spec was finalised. So where are you going with this Des [&o] Tony

 

[RSR]

Lets not pretend the RS is something other than a C2 shell with some brackets added, some brackets deleted, some strengthening plates added to make it double skinned in places and then some seam welding. Regarding NOT tooling up for RHD this makes no sense. The shell is made by taking a load of pre pressed panels then spot welding them together. The key difference between RHD and LHD shells are the following 4 panels, none of which have anything RS specific done to them. 964 502 028 00 RHD Dash lower 964 502 026 00 RHD Dash upper 964 502 024 02 RHD Upper bulk head cross panel 964 501 054 02 RHD Front floor section If you take a LHD shell swap these 4 panels from the shell (with some associated minor brackets) you will have a RHD shell. The RS specific changes are on panels which are generic to both LHD and RHD. An RS is an RS regardless of LHD / RHD. Hope that helps.

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: RSR Lets not pretend the RS is something other than a C2 shell with some brackets added, some brackets deleted, some strengthening plates added to make it double skinned in places and then some seam welding.

Agreed! And the Cup / N-GT shell is very, very solid. (Compared to all that junk that pretends to be a sports car the standard C2 shell is a very, very solid house, too.) Changes on that shell and cage system - other than for safety reasons like the "X" door bars - were done later in the 993. For the 993 GT 2 Konrad Motorsport added for FIA GT 2 races a tube here, a steel plate there (in cooperation with the factory) and really made a step forward. But that was a real animal with loads of torque, hundreds and hundreds of horses, uniball suspensions, huge slicks, etc., a sheer race car. And they were chasing the Viper those days... doing good in the end. Rgds Hacki

 

[SimonExtreme]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy Anorakism abounds on this Forum Paul without it we would be even more sad ... now here is a Bombsell!!! Rumour has it Right Hand Drive Shells are C2 Shells as the factory would not tool up for such limited production!!! Start ripping up your carpet and have a look guys .. Simon Extreme first ... remember the idea of the 92´¨ RS was to homolgate FiA with a minimum 1000 units which the second generation CUP N-GT and RSR were built from .... you are correct Paul does not really matter ... but it´s raining here today ..[]

Des I really cannot work out whether you are a wind up merchant or whether you have a seriously deluded obsession. The RHD RS is just as much an RS as a LHD one. It is homolgated for Group N/GT racing, just like the LHD cars. The RHD cars were included in the total of 1000 that needed to be built before 31st December 1991 in order to homolgate (I have seen documentary evidence of this). The RHD bodyshell has exactly the same modifications as the LHD car (I have seen them on my car). When it comes to the body shells of the basic and the N/GT "clubsport, they are the same. The cage was added as standard to the N/GT but was actually avialable as an option on the basic. So, other than to wind me up, why do you keep on with this?

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: RSR Lets not pretend the RS is something other than a C2 shell with some brackets added, some brackets deleted, some strengthening plates added to make it double skinned in places and then some seam welding. Regarding NOT tooling up for RHD this makes no sense. The shell is made by taking a load of pre pressed panels then spot welding them together. The key difference between RHD and LHD shells are the following 4 panels, none of which have anything RS specific done to them. 964 502 028 00 RHD Dash lower 964 502 026 00 RHD Dash upper 964 502 024 02 RHD Upper bulk head cross panel 964 501 054 02 RHD Front floor section If you take a LHD shell swap these 4 panels from the shell (with some associated minor brackets) you will have a RHD shell. The RS specific changes are on panels which are generic to both LHD and RHD. An RS is an RS regardless of LHD / RHD. Hope that helps.

My point Paul well detailed .... rumour and I say rumour but from a well respected source ... say Porsche at the beginning and end of a model run would make up cars with over produced or under-produced shells if they were spare or nor if you follow ... so a c2 could have a RS Shell and vice versa .... a few RS AMericas have been known to have a seam welded RS Shell .....I have seen the evidence Simon, in private in a BierkELLAR in dim light on a foggy night in Berlin in the ealy hours of the morning so there... iot's all a laugh ...[]

 

[ChrisW]

ORIGINAL: RSR Lets not pretend the RS is something other than a C2 shell with some brackets added, some brackets deleted, some strengthening plates added to make it double skinned in places and then some seam welding. Regarding NOT tooling up for RHD this makes no sense. The shell is made by taking a load of pre pressed panels then spot welding them together. The key difference between RHD and LHD shells are the following 4 panels, none of which have anything RS specific done to them. 964 502 028 00 RHD Dash lower 964 502 026 00 RHD Dash upper 964 502 024 02 RHD Upper bulk head cross panel 964 501 054 02 RHD Front floor section If you take a LHD shell swap these 4 panels from the shell (with some associated minor brackets) you will have a RHD shell. The RS specific changes are on panels which are generic to both LHD and RHD. An RS is an RS regardless of LHD / RHD. Hope that helps.

Either way Des, this information from Paul seems both detailed and compelling. Thanks Paul !

 

[chfs911]

Des will be talking RHD to LHD conversions now the Euro is so strong. LHD RSs will always be worth more.

 

[SimonExtreme]

UK RHD cars might not be worth as much as euro LHD ones but Aussie RHD cars are worth more than either of them.........................[]

.... a few RS AMericas have been known to have a seam welded RS Shell .....

Now, this is an interesting one! I had heard this story (it was discussed on rennlist many years ago) and I believe that the conclusion drawn was that it was probably one of the 25 "Andial" Carrera Cup cars with the RSA fixed spoiler on the back.