Why so many 924 V8's and not 944's ?

[ukmastiff]

lo all, can someone tell me why do so many folk in the U.K seem to convert a 924 to V8 but not a 944. I would have thought a 944 version the more attractive option and it's not like you cant pick up a cheap solid 944 as a base ? . Is there some physical reason for this or not.

Cheers

Mas

 

[Lowtimer]

I'd say it's down to incentives/ motives and alternatives in the case of the two models. In the case of the 924 most cars are only 125 hp or 150 hp, there don't seem to have been many Turbos at all in the UK, and the 2.0 litre engine always has the "not a proper Porsche" thing slung at at it. So if you want a quick 924 you are pretty much reliant on some sort of conversion. With the 944, the go-faster urge is easily and conveniently scratched by buying an S2 or Turbo, and most of the people who like to get into mods and tinkering will find there is enough scope for expensive fun upgrading the Turbos.
A V8 conversion is a big enterprise so not be be undertaken casually or lightly but if you could get a reliable 300 bhp by chucking a modest four figure sum at an existing healthy 924, the way you can with a 944T, I doubt you would see so many 924 V8 conversions.

 

[Diver944]

Well I haven't seen that many 924 conversions (less than half a dozen) but what I have tend to use the cheap Rover V8 which in standard form is a pretty unimpressive engine - less powerful than a 944T. It's a very good step up in power from a base 2.0L 924 but fairly rubbish in a 944T. If you spent a similar amount modifying a 944T you would be in the 350bhp ballpark, so to my mind it's pointless going V8 in a 944 unless you want to be well above 400bhp

 

[Alexw]

Maybe its weight? The 924's and early 944's weigh less than the later offering don't thet? Plus you can pick up a 924 for peanuts for the last few years

 

[PSH]

Why change an engine that properly modified can make over 500bhp at the wheels for something like a sluggish V8, check out Speed Force racing for their list of mods. My car has many mods from various companies but I intend to upgrade a lot of these if not all to SFR gear at some point in the future... well as long as the wife doesn't kill me first...[8|][8|]

btw I couple of years ago I drove the Shelby Mustang GT550, had it for 9 days while in LA.... fast yes but as fast as my 944????... no way... heavy, bad brakes.. terrible suspension and an engine that took far to long to get on tap... well just a typical american muscle car I guess....[8D]


Pete

 

[berg944]

fast yes but as fast as my 944????... no way... heavy, bad brakes..

My Corvette C5 is much faster than my lightweight 944 Turbo was, that was no slow coach.

My Turbo was set up for the track and would easily beat the Corvette, unless the track is a banked oval.

The Corvette handles a bit like a standard Turbo, Comfortable ride but rolls when you push it.

The corvette does not weigh much more than a standard Turbo as its all plastic. The brakes are fantastic, alot better than my Big Blacks, but there is alot more rubber on the road.

The C5 is not to be confused with the tail happy C4, It has near 50/50 weight distribution. It has a lower centre of gravity and a wider axle than the 944.

Big problem with the Corvette is LHD......try going through an automatic pay booth on your own!!!

Corvette muscle vs 944T........ completely different but the same.........Loads of Fun.

Mike

 

[DivineE]

Cheaper to buy as a project car and lighter out of the box (though probably more the first reason).

 

[berg944]

Sorry, wandered of the thread.

I believe a few years ago when the 924 was very cheap you could still get a rover V8 for a couple of Hundred quid. This inspired those who like to play and had no problem with gutting a 924. L98 and LS1 GM V8's cost a few thousand. You would get about 350 bhp from the
LS1 or if you wanted to spend a few grand (less than some tuned Turbo's)on tuning and a blower you would get 600 bhp. This would be a total waste of money (unless you are into the bravado of dyno figures) as you would kill the tyres in seconds!
Started to wander again[]

Mike

 

[tr7v8]

Currently looking at going LSx on mine. The rebuild costs of a 944 engine is eyewatering, then it is the 300 quid or so for the front seals & belts & idlers etc. Another 250 for a water pump if needed. The LSx is understressed potentially hugely more BHP than anything 944 & costs relatively peanuts both to buy & maintain. Installation looks to be fairly easy & most bits are off the shelf GM.

 

[sawood12]

That's what appeals to me Jim. The Promax turnkey package at £20k sounds very tempting as you're not just getting a re-engined 944 but effectively a semi-refurbished car with refurbished and working A/C, 450 bhp, sorted bodywork, the best fast-road suspension kit you can get for the 944 at the moment, all with the balance of the car unaffected as there is very little weight difference between the engines. I had really targeted my next Porsche to be a low £20k 996 turbo, but the Promax 944 v8 sounds more fun, cheaper maintenance, less risk and is a car I wont be afraid to take on the odd trackday, unlike a 996 turbo.

As others have said, just the case of scrabbling together £20k! The little nippers are delaying my plans! Though my eldest daughter often talks about "Daddies red sportscar" and has asked when we're buying it back, so at least i'll have some support on my side when I come to present the business case to the other half!

 

[DavidL]

I worked out you need to be around the 380bhp to give a similar power to weight on a 944 as that in a 996T.
996T seem to be slipping under 25K but that really is the dregs and would you really want that? 30K gives much more choice but then you start to get into 355 and Sagaris territory and the can of worms is everywhere!
I keep thinking about a 996T but when you can get a solid 350bhp from a 944T for so much less would you really notice on the road? I'm far from convinced.
Mine is off for a service tomorrow and part of that will be a compression test (currently on 230K but it seems fine) - we shall see what the answer is. If it isn't for upgrading then I shall be looking very carefully at the options.

 

[sawood12]

Well £22k can buy you a very nice 80k mile 2 previous owner OPC serviced 2001 996T. I know because a guy at work I know has just bought one - though the asking price was £29k. I actually think a tiptronic - which are actually a couple or so grand less than a manual might be better - no clutch to worry about (and 966T's can chew clutches up) and I wouldn't imagine i'd be tracking it much, so for the road a tip should be good - and 'driver involvement' is not improved in a nice plush car with a fancy 4wd system and all the other driver aids modern cars have. So I think the extra power would be accessable - afterall that is what the 911 turbo is famous for.

Can't see a 355 being a viable alternative - no point in owning a car you're scared to drive for fear of a £1500 bill or for harming its depreciation too much. And after driving a 350 Modena I was very underwhelmed by its performance. I might fancy a TVR one day, but not at the moment - I could do with the small rear seats of a Porsche to squeeze the kids in on the odd occasion. But anyway a very nice 944T or 944 v8 would certainly be on the car - these things are built to last and don't cost you a fortune when you use them!

 

[Northern924]

Agree with Scott, my brother in law picked his 996 C4 up last year with full OPC & Indy. SH for £18k, since then its had full OPC until I made him aware of Tom Ferguson, next time he's in the UK he'll be using Tom (well Steve) as his Indy.

As for the original Q.....

Until recently you could pick up an excellent 924 for £500 making a V89 conversion all the more appealing.

Here it is from my perspective,,,,

The 924 is an easy conversion to V8 because of its simplicity.

944 has a lot more electronics, ECU being a huge stumbling block!

Well sorry to seem a little simplistic, but thats about it!

Plus ...... have you tried putting a V8 equipped 944 up against a 2.5l 944?

Sorry but I disagree that a V8 lump is better than a well tuned 944, OK so the standard '44 is only 2.5/2.7ltr

but Porsche tuned that engine to perfection, why make your car front heavy with an engine that isn't suited to the chassis?

Yes you might have 4.5ltrs+ in that engine, but you have to power twice the cylinders in a V config?
Someone please tell me how that is better for performance unless its tuned like an M5?

 

[AndrewS]

It depends which V8 source you use. A LS engine from General Motors (GM) is in a different performance league to the Rover V8 (and 2.5/2.7 & 3.0 Porsche 4 cylinder engines).

Using a GM sourced LS1/LS2/LS3 engine retains the weight distribution of the 944 Turbo. The weight of the LS engine compared to the 951's engine and ancillaries are pretty much equal.

A standard LS2 will make 400+ bhp and with a moderate tune, 425 plus is easily achieved. That power is achieved with useable torque from 1200 rpm and the LS engines are far cheaper to maintain and refurbish than a 951 engine. Add to that the renowned durability of the LS V8 engines and you have an excellent and feasible alternative to rebuilding a 951 engine.

See the '944 V8' threads elsewhere on this forum for more info. []

Regards,
Andrew

 

[pauly]

I look forward to the first UK roadtest of a 944 LS though to be brutally honest it will always be a mongrel and a quick way to turn 20k into a lot less, a good rolling shell and 10k diy seems more sensible to me.

 

[Lowtimer]

if I had the keys to an LS powered 944 right now, you would see a big smile on my face followed by a big cloud of tyresmoke in the car park. And the price suggested by Promax seems very fair for the work they would have to do. Yet I would actually feel bad about taking the Porsche heart out of my own car.

Also, if and when it came to actually write the cheque, I could not help thinking that I could keep my Turbo as it is, and buy an additional nice complete ready-to-go Corvette C5 like this one for under £14K. I think having the pair would be a more seductive proposition. Of course, as time goes by these values will change... second hand thirsty sportscars are cheap at the moment.
http://www.corvette.co.uk/pages.php?section=cars&itemID=171

 

[berg944]

This is a good one if you have the spare dosh......I was tempted. (Look at the mileage)

http://www.chrisgrahamcorvettes.co.uk/vehicles/2010_07_20/index.html

but if you want a C5 you are best buying a late 2001 0nwards Euro spec one, a few grand more gets you a low mileage one.

I am getting about the same MPG as my Turbo......but it runs on standard fuel.

Mike