Window regulator rollers

[bmnelsc]

Hello - the plastic roller that fits into the guide on the bottom of the window has broken. This plastic roller pops onto a ball stud on the end of the regulator arm and rolls along the channel in the guide as the arm moves up and down - taking the window with it.

Porsche does not sell this roller separately - it is part of the assembly which Porsche calls the crossarm (pn 944 537 941 01). Needless to say I didn't ask how much.

Anyone sourced one of these rollers or replaced with something similar? The sticker on the motor says brose 680-24653 and 477 959 123A...I'll bet is shows up in a lot of Porsche/Audi/VW vehicles.

Thanks

 

[bmnelsc]

Oops! - should have went looking before whining!
Found these on Pelican Parts http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/944M/POR_944M_BDYBMP_pg4.htm#item17
Looks like the right thing...anyone tried these?

Also - I found a lot of ads for PIMAX replacement regulators - with motors - average price US$180. Supposedly direct replacement but they provide a new plug for the wiring harness if the existing plug is incompatible. Any experience with these? Am I better off with a PIMAX unit vs attempting a repair?

Thanks again.

 

[MikeTeesside]

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc
Also - I found a lot of ads for PIMAX replacement regulators - with motors - average price US$180. Supposedly direct replacement but they provide a new plug for the wiring harness if the existing plug is incompatible. Any experience with these? Am I better off with a PIMAX unit vs attempting a repair?

I'd like to know this, too.

Pretty sure my drivers window motor is dead as a dodo. Wiring and switch are both fine.

 

[Diver944]

That was a good find on Pelican Parts Bruce, but I notice they are made by Rennbay and can be bought $7.50 cheaper direct []

http://rennbay.com/Hardware/944-Window-Regulator-Roller-Repair-Kit.html

One of mine went a few years ago and I could only source a complete second hand crossarm for a tenner and just swapped over the plastic roller

 

[bmnelsc]

Argh! - Good hunting! I stumbled across these on Pelican - their search didn't produce them. Rennbay didn't show up on my internet searches before going to pelican tho in hindsight - I should have noted the brand and checked over there also.

 

[Eldavo]

ORIGINAL: MikeTeesside

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc
Also - I found a lot of ads for PIMAX replacement regulators - with motors - average price US$180. Supposedly direct replacement but they provide a new plug for the wiring harness if the existing plug is incompatible. Any experience with these? Am I better off with a PIMAX unit vs attempting a repair?

I'd like to know this, too.

Pretty sure my drivers window motor is dead as a dodo. Wiring and switch are both fine.

Working window regulator and motor assemblies seem to go quite cheaply on fleabay and failures appear relatively uncommon.

Maybe worth stripping it down and bench testing it but MIND YOUR FINGERS!!!

 

[MikeTeesside]

ORIGINAL: Eldavo

ORIGINAL: MikeTeesside

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc
Also - I found a lot of ads for PIMAX replacement regulators - with motors - average price US$180. Supposedly direct replacement but they provide a new plug for the wiring harness if the existing plug is incompatible. Any experience with these? Am I better off with a PIMAX unit vs attempting a repair?

I'd like to know this, too.

Pretty sure my drivers window motor is dead as a dodo. Wiring and switch are both fine.

Working window regulator and motor assemblies seem to go quite cheaply on fleabay and failures appear relatively uncommon.

Maybe worth stripping it down and bench testing it but MIND YOUR FINGERS!!!

I'll probably strip both sides down. Might just be the rollers!

The car was sat idle for a few years before I bought it, drivers window doesn't work, passenger window is very slow and seems to struggle.

 

[944fla]

Hi Bruce I just changed the whole drivers unit on mine last week...its a nasty cutty fingers job but doable,The teeth on the quadrant wheel where ground to nubs, I have a lefty regulator going if required,looking at Pelican parts im sure they will do the trick(but is it just the wheels or is it the tothed wheels(cogs at motor)?

 

[Jinxy]

STOP !! whatever you do don't but those replacement rollers they don't work, I had the exact same problem with my windows so I bought a new set of rollers, they worked ok for a short while then kept jumping off, thinking it was a problem with the regulator I swapped for a good 2nd hand one & as the rollers were new I swapped them over to the new arm, within 2 - 3 window operation's the arms jumped off again, so I put the old rollers back on & hey presto its been ok now for nearly 2 years, so the problem is with the rollers, I would buy a good 2nd hand regulator with a good set of rollers if I were you, good luck, Jinxy

 

[bmnelsc]

Thanks for the info guys - I've found my new roller didn't do the trick either. On closer inspection, my rear roller actually runs out of the guide about an inch and the arm is misaligned (toward the centre of the door rather than staying under the window). So - I have more trouble than rollers. I had the whole thing loose trying to get the rollers all back into their guides bit didn't pull it out for inspection - I guess that is next.

Is it possible for one arm to jump a tooth or something like that? I believe the helper spring is still in tact but will have to check. Next stop is a big suction cup to hold the window up while I pull this thing out - I'm tired of fighting the window back into its channels when the regulator runs itself out the guides. I don't have enough hands for this job

 

[bmnelsc]

Thanks for the offer - let me look at what my problem is. How much do you think the regulator weighs (without motor) - I'll have to factor shipping to western Canada into the mix.

 

[Jinxy]

The reason the roller keeps dropping out of the bottom runner is because you have it bolted in the wrong way round, if you turn it around you'll find the roller runs almost to the end before making its way back towards the other end, if it runs off one end its on the wrong way round,... the new rollers are still shit though LOL !!!

 

[bmnelsc]

Hmmm - its the top rear roller that is running out of the guide - and it was doing it before I loosened anything up. Also the arm seems bent in toward the door card putting a lot of stress on the roller (while it is in the guide). I'll have to pull the regulator right out and have a look. The helper spring appeared to be intact but once the regulator was loosened off and reinstalled - the circular clip that is visible through the round hole seems a little cockeyed. I might have a broken pin that holds the end of the helper spring but I didn't find any bits in the bottom of the door other than the one popped roller.

I didn't know you could put these in reversed - the pet shows different "crossarms" - left and right.

And yes - so far the new rollers seem to be a poor substitute at best.

 

[bmnelsc]

Hi - I found a used regulator (with motor) on ebay shipped to me for $65 so I went that way (I'm assuming my regulator is pooched but my motor is good). There was a guy on Rennlist (US) that had a brand new one with motor going for $150 (last post) but he seems to have fled to other pastures - no response to my queries. That left me with new ($430 USD) or the Italian compatible replacements. No one here seems to know much about them so I passed on those mostly because they look a little different (arm angles, etc) and no positive feedback.

Thanks all for your inputs - and yes Jinxy - the rennbay rollers aren't up to the job - might work ok on 911 or manual winders but seem too loose to take the torque of the electrics on big 944 windows.

 

[bmnelsc]

Update - replaced regulator with used one - same issue with roller coming out of the rear guide. Before installing I compared the existing to the replacement and other than the replacement having a different part number on the cross arm section, they line up in the critical dimensions. The motor is the same but the "body" of the cross arm and the helper spring "appear" slightly lighter duty. Seems to work fine tho - this one the roller stays under the window as it runs out of the guide while the original is obviously warped and runs hard to the inside of the door.

So - the OPC suggested that the metal channel that the window sits in (and the guides are welded to) has slipped toward the front of the car and window must be removed to reposition the window in the channel. About 2 hours labor as I already have the door apart. I'm going to let them do is as I'm not up taking the risk of breaking the window.

Anybody experienced this?

 

[Frenchy]

Saying you have the door stripped, 1 hours labour !

 

[bmnelsc]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy

Saying you have the door stripped, 1 hours labour !

Probably should be but it is the dealer... I'm not really all the way stripped as the regulator is back in but the door card, switches, etc are off but the power locks and all that stuff are still in as well as the outside weatherstrip, etc. I would expect an hour if I took them the window

 

[bmnelsc]

Well - the dealer visit didn't go so well - the tech took the regulator out to check the part number and told me I needed a new one as the part number was incorrect. This is after I told the service rep the whole story - guess that was a waste of time as the tech didn't hear about it. Oddly enough - there is one part number for tinted coupe glass - so one window fits all years - they didn't notice that part.

Anyway - upon inspection of the window - it is obvious that the guide has shifted quite a bit although it is still very well stuck. The outline of the rubber gasket is visible along with a big streak of very hard adhesive. Porsche solution is a new window at C$550 ish on top of a new regulator $450 ish. My solution is to look for a glass shop that has the solvents to loosen up the old adhesive so the guide can be removed and re-glued back in the right place. The good news is when I reminded the service rep that I came to have the guide re-positioned on the window as the rest of the "diagnosis" had been competed - there was no charge.

Anyone know the measurements for this? Porsche says they have no access because they get them as a component. I guess I'll have to open up the passenger side and measure that one. I banking on it being a mirror image.

 

[bmnelsc]

All done - working like a charm. No glass shop was willing to undertake removing and replacing the channel quoting ease of breaking the window. Probably too much risk for low reward work as pretty much labor only - their time is better spent on jobs that include parts sales

Using a 1" thin flexible scraper I worked down to the bottom of the channel on both sides - glass to rubber and then rubber to channel. Very gentle prying with a small screwdriver between the rubber and the channel got it started (went in from each end so I was prying along the length of the window rather than across an edge) and it slipped off easily. Cleaned off the old hard urethane with a razor blade. I pulled the door card off the other side and measured the placement of the channel to the window (from the door latch side forward). I had 38mm to the start of the rubber and 48mm to the start of the channel. I ran a strip of low tack tape across above the channel position and marked the starting points for rubber and channel.

A windshield shop cleaned, primed and applied urethane according to my measurements for C$20. Let it dry for a day and popped the window back in. All good! So this repair was completed for about C$85 excluding the Rennbay rollers that I didn't use. Very happy with the result and I must say I won't be so cautious next time as I lost a lot of driving time worrying about things.

One additional thing - when I took the other door apart to measure the channel placement - I found the window switch on that side was intermittent (after being jostled around during removal). I popped the switch apart and the blue power wire came right out of the connector. A little plumber's flux and a touch with the soldering iron set it right. Reassembled the switch and all is good. I was kind of surprised to find a "cold solder" in here but something to look out for if you have issues with your window switches.

In summary - seems that any '84 up power window regulator will work and it seems that the coupe windows are the same for all years. And yes you can remove and reposition the glass in the channel without breaking the window.