Would you buy a car with rusty sills?

[JamesO]

The sills usually rust from the inside out. So 'surface rust' is unlikely and rarely cheap to put right properly. Walk away or not? No idea, they all rot in the end just some faster than others. Mine looked fine 3 years ago and are now needing repair.

 

[sulzeruk]

I bought a guards red 1990 S2 for just over half that needing about the same work. Paint was faded but it had all the correct receipts with it an 99K on the clock. Alasdair

 

[Suffolk944]

Yes I would be wary of the notion of it just being surface rust. Have you popped out the black grills in the door frames and shone/lowered a light down to inspect the sills from within ? I would suggest you need to do that with this car before you commit to buying it.

 

[Alpine]

that pic is certainly not surface rust, as already said the cills rust from the inside out so those cills look shot to me. I'd budget £1,500 to sort all the bodywork, so I think the car sounds expensive at £3,200. I'd get a quote from a bodyshop before you commit to buy.

 

[JamesBall]

I looked at a 944 S2 today that seems to be mechanically excellent, with perfect history (just over 100k miles) but has significant rust bubbles along both sills, the rear edges of the front wings (by the inner plastic arch liners) and one one wing along the join with the bumper.

The knowledge seller says it is surface rust and will be cheap to fix but he just wants rid of the car for bona fide reasons. Given the rust a deal can be struck for ~£3200.

But with this level of rust (all other panels seem solid) would you just walk away?

Some photos below.

More photos here: http://james9205.fotopic.net/c1838492.html

 

[JamesBall]

Thanks guys. You are confirming what I suspected. Another photo - of the other sill/cill (sp?) I am amazed that there are S2's changing hands for sub £2k though.

 

[Copperman05]

Its definately fixable but at a price, I would say that £3200 is too much considering the cost to repair it properly. You would need to work out how much an already good one is going to cost you against the price of one with shot sills plus repair, but instinct would tell me that its not just the bodywork that has been neglected on this car. Looking at the fotopix you have posted I would walk away from that car unless it was very cheap, the front wings look pretty normal as most of these cars look similar but add to that rust at the front bumper and sills and youve got yourself a big bill to get it all right again. Edd

 

[idwoodvale]

Have a look at the pics of Copperman05's thread. The panel alignment on the car you're looking at looks pretty dodgy to me. I'm no expert but I'd be cautious. Someone with more knowledge may be able to give a better opinion.

 

[sawood12]

In principle i'd say no, and in some screwed up way it might be a good idea to buy a cheap 944 that needs new sills and have them replaced than pay a good price for one that appears to have decent sills only to find they need some work a couple of years down the line. Getting the outer sills done properly by an experienced bodyshop is a grand or so job using OEM parts. I think £3200 is too much for a car needing new sills irrespective of mechanical condition. It is important to get the sills done by a body shop with experience of this specific job. THe Porsche specialist near me (PH Sportscars) used to get a nice amount of knock-on business from people getting their 944's sills sorted after ropey jobs after using their bodyshop down the road. It's better to pay for the job once. The only way to be sure that you are buying a car that is rust free in those areas is to get an endoscope down the sill to actually visually confirm they are rust free and get the car up on the ramps to have a good butchers at the condition of the wing bottoms. I'd echo Ians comments - those panel gaps look dodgy from the photo's you've posted. Not sure if it is just camera trickery.

 

[morris944s2john]

I would actually look for a cheap 944S2 with rusty sills, but then I can weld, paint and make my own repair sections. I would expect to see a lot knocked off the price for that amount of rust as it is not just surface rust- both sills need replacing on that car- at significant expense including the paintwork! and I agree, the front wing is not aligned with the sill, that looks dodgy, check the car for signs of accident repair and possibly do an HPI check. I would buy a 944 with rusty sills but not one with rusty sills that was still bent from an accident!

 

[morris944s2john]

Just looked at the rest of the pics and both wings need repairing, or replacing- one wing is rusty at the front where it joins the spoiler, which I have never seen on a 944. Again, this will have rusted out from the inside. On the larger pics both front wings have uneven gaps to the front of the sill. I can't see how this could be wing fitting as the front wings bolt to the A pillar and not at the bottom. Possibly the whole front of the car had a big impact early in the cars life and the chassis is still bent. I would walk away from that one! sad to say it, but that car is probably worth parts only.[][]

 

[Pastry]

I wouldnt walk away from that, i'd RUN [] One pic is the rear arch interior from the boot so thats rusting too? so wings, sills (inner/outer) rear arches... whatever's still hiding after that.

 

[sulzeruk]

Hi James, if it had T and T, I would be looking at 2K max for it. Where the stone chip is bubbling under the paint, that is moisture getting in underneath it. The mositure gets into the seam at the rear end of the sill and creeps along to the front rotting nicely. All the drain holes will probably be blocked in the sill as well, they are usually full of rust! If buying it, check carefully the front and rear towers of the jacking points and make sure they are at the same height, that also gives a good indication of how dodgy the floor pans are. Check the join between outer sill and floor pan all the way from front to back as this needs to be in good nick if you have to replace the sill, if not, you have to chop into the floor pan. # Corrosion inside the bootpockets either side where the battery sits is usually due to leaking lights or hatch pins seals, not a hard job to sort out. Make sure all grommets are in place at the bottom of the spare wheel well as that can let a lot of water in but helps let it out if all the seals are leaking! John, the front of the wings where they join the PU is quite a common rot spot, watwer gets past the wheelarch liner and sits on top of the return in the wing where the 3 bolts go through. I have a few cars here with plenty of rot there, not a major job to repair as they are easy to get the wing off, the biggest problem is getting a good fit along the PU after welding repair, a spare PU is handy for this!!! Alasdair

 

[Neil Haughey]

A car with just rusty sills yes, but this is not the end of it. Add on rusty wings, rusty rear arches, any floor rust and or rear suspension brackets then your looking at that £3k again and then some. OTOH I have my doubts about there being minty S2's left for sale out there. They where getting very thin on the ground 5 years ago let alone now when most cars have enough miles and years on them to require significant work. I used to fret about this stuff but to put into context the donor shell for my race car looked perfect, an undamaged example with no visible rust but it came out of the acid dip requiring new sills and some other small repairs (don't want to scare anyone but it had already had evidence of replacement sills in the past). My 968 is also in the body shop at the moment having a repair to the rear suspension brackets. Both myself and my indie where shocked it failed the MoT but the tester was shall we say a little over-exuberant with the screwdriver [], costing me about £500 to repair, on one hand it shouldn't have needed it bta its better to start now rather then waiting for the body to become a rust bucket. If one reads the other forums and sections rust repairs are very common now on 964 (I can remember seeing one with rust around the headlights 8 years ago), 993 and sometimes even on the water cooled cars. All much newer and usually much better maintained then S2's.

 

[NeilW]

James, The alignment of the wing is off, which may be why the front wing is rusty, i.e. poor previous repair. Repair to the wings and rear quarter panel need not be expensive. However, the sills could be, especially if the rot has reached the floorpan. It would be worth looking down the b-pillar from the vent hole and if possible lowering a compact digital camera (camera phone might work) down and taking a forward facing shot along the inside of the sill. Small hands required! What's the rest of the paint like on the car?

 

[JamesBall]

Chaps. Thanks to all for the very useful feedback. I have added a few more photos of the car for reference. The rest of the bodywork seemed to be in good condition and mechanically the car has been well looked after. It is surprising that the body work had been left to get so bad but the previous owner was an elderly chap (in his 70s) who had barely used it for the last few years so he probably didn't notice or care that much. The car has been looked after by the same (well regarded) specialist for the last 13 years and their view is that , bar the rust, it is one of the best 944s they have seen for ages. It is being sold by someone connected to the specialist though so there is a bit of a conflict of interests. It is really on the reputation and advice of the specialist that I am so interested. Anyone else and I would not have looked twice at it. Unfortunately the car is more than 4hrs away from me so I can't pop out to have another look at it easily (re looking in sills plus the other great advice). I think I will have to keep looking. Anyone know of a nice S2 out there More photos here: http://james9205.fotopic.net/c1838492.html

 

[Alpine]

James Is the car in Bolton by chance? (I recognise the background) The garage is very well respected but I think you will need to spend an awful lot of money to sort that rust. You will probably need new front wings on both sides, as the rust at the front edge looks pretty bad and will be difficult to weld up. New wings are £400 each (2nd had ones are very hard to come by), and that is before paint and fitting is considered. You then have the cills to sort which will be the most expensive job, and there is rust in the wells in the boot which is another bad sign. I bet that one has lived outisde all of its life, maybe by the sea. Does the £3.2k include a mark up by the garage? A nice S2 with no rust issues should be around £4k, so this one is way too much. There are some nice ones out there that have good service history. You need to find one that has been molested on every level; this one may have been mechanically, but the bodywork has been neglected.

 

[JamesBall]

I'd rather not say where the car is from (to protect the innocent ) But thanks for the words of wisdom. There seems to be general agreement that this car needs a lot spending on it. Time to walk away from this one. Some people love the hunt for a car but I can't stand it. I just want to find one quickly and get on with driving it

 

[NeilW]

James, that's very similar to my own recent S2 purchase. An elderly chap who'd owned it for most of its life just wasn't using it any more; fastidiously maintained though. It had started to exhibit the same sort of body issues but not as bad as the pictures you show. Just got it back after three weeks in the bodyshop. It would be difficult to recommend you pursuing without further investigation, which from what you've said isn't necessarily practical. How about:- [link=http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1607013.htm]S2 on Pistonheads[/link]

 

[JamesBall]

Thanks Neil. I have emailed the seller about that one earlier this evening. There is an amazing range of prices for S2's on Pistonheads - up to £7k for nice looking cars but I'd be after a Turbo for that money.