06 Turbo or Gen2 C4S
- Thread starter johners
- Start date
Each vehicle has a different power delivery to its wheels. One pushes from the rear, the other also pulls from the front. The turbo charged car is heavier and more powerful (100+ bhp) so its momentum is greater and it all happens at a quicker pace. A turbo charged engine has a different power delivery and in extreme, there is a time lag as full power requires the turbine to spool up. As a consequence, reaction time and driving technique for keeping the engine within its optimum power band and the method of weight transfer to obtain maximum road holding are quite different. [
] Regards,
Clive.
Thanks Clive. I can't dispute what you're saying as you've had quite a few of these cars and i'm only on my first and have covered relatively few miles compared to yourself. Questions that spring to my novice mind are:
Pulling from the front makes it less likely to unsettle the car - less challenging to 'graduate' to. Pulling from the front would be a graduation step to helping making the transition to the rear-biased quirky 911. Then going RWD is a graduation step from there I would have thought. E.g. i'd rather go turbo before going GT2 (the widow maker) for example.
Yes the turbo is much much quicker and as you say everything happens at a much quicker pace and that aspect is more demanding, but I don't feel I needed to go via a C2S to work my way up. I'm respecting the turbo's pace as I get used to it. I started off using little of its full potential and am using more and more of it.
The turbo lag has been next to non-existent as their blowing from under 2000 rpm and I always put it in sport mode which further negates lag. (I hear the bigger turbos on the GT2 and GT2 RS have more lag - I digress)
I was warned about the graduation to a manual turbo in that the up-shifts are needed quickly because of the speed of the thing and the low peak RPM compared to N/A. That is true but I don't feel I should have gone via C2S first.
But maybe i'm not getting as much out of the car as I could be. In fact I know i'm not, yet. But going for a AWD 911 first I would have thought would make it easier to transition to an RWD one. I'm mindful of the weight transfer in these cars so i'm glad to have the AWD to help with the car's balance whilst I ease myself into pushing the car harder and harder.
Pulling from the front makes it less likely to unsettle the car - less challenging to 'graduate' to. Pulling from the front would be a graduation step to helping making the transition to the rear-biased quirky 911. Then going RWD is a graduation step from there I would have thought. E.g. i'd rather go turbo before going GT2 (the widow maker) for example.
Yes the turbo is much much quicker and as you say everything happens at a much quicker pace and that aspect is more demanding, but I don't feel I needed to go via a C2S to work my way up. I'm respecting the turbo's pace as I get used to it. I started off using little of its full potential and am using more and more of it.
The turbo lag has been next to non-existent as their blowing from under 2000 rpm and I always put it in sport mode which further negates lag. (I hear the bigger turbos on the GT2 and GT2 RS have more lag - I digress)
I was warned about the graduation to a manual turbo in that the up-shifts are needed quickly because of the speed of the thing and the low peak RPM compared to N/A. That is true but I don't feel I should have gone via C2S first.
But maybe i'm not getting as much out of the car as I could be. In fact I know i'm not, yet. But going for a AWD 911 first I would have thought would make it easier to transition to an RWD one. I'm mindful of the weight transfer in these cars so i'm glad to have the AWD to help with the car's balance whilst I ease myself into pushing the car harder and harder.
Flat6. A lot of my original thoughts around not going into a hedge backwards follow your thoughts on AWD. And reading your post. And seeing your nice picture on the forum means your first 911 is indeed a 997.1 TT. From your perspective I'm assuming you think you made the right choice! Why did you decide to go for the 911 you did?
Thanks Paul
Alan - Not too many Porsche Centres know about that one! []
Cecil - GT2 is a better handling car because of its sharper turn-in but needs more expertise to drive quickly; front wheel drive cars inherently understeer, then oversteer as you crank on more lock. As you start to exploit more of your car's potential, you will find understeer becomes a feature as will available engine power pulling away from apexes - this does not usually happen on the daily commute though![] Later cars have the option of PTV to improve turn-in.
In order to overcome the problems, some very experienced drivers employ left foot braking to balance the car on throttle and brake simultaneously, but this technique is not something I would normally recommend to a novice or first time 911 owner. []
(Apologies to Johners for high jacking his thread.)
Regards,
Clive.
]Cecil - GT2 is a better handling car because of its sharper turn-in but needs more expertise to drive quickly; front wheel drive cars inherently understeer, then oversteer as you crank on more lock. As you start to exploit more of your car's potential, you will find understeer becomes a feature as will available engine power pulling away from apexes - this does not usually happen on the daily commute though![
] Later cars have the option of PTV to improve turn-in.In order to overcome the problems, some very experienced drivers employ left foot braking to balance the car on throttle and brake simultaneously, but this technique is not something I would normally recommend to a novice or first time 911 owner. [
](Apologies to Johners for high jacking his thread.)
Regards,
Clive.
My three main reasons were torque, torque and more torque. Regardless of gear you get a good shove, unlike an N/A car that has a narrow point of peak torque, outside of which it can be quite weak unless you rev the nuts and bolts out of it to stay at peak torque. I don't always enjoy that. Some do of course. But to add some other reasons, lifted directly from another thread:
ORIGINAL: flat6
Thanks Colin[
My toy is by no means the latest. Its 8 years old but that was the limit of my budget for turbos. I used to consider stretching to a 997 GTS for newer tech and PDK but the turbo ticked more boxes and its worked out to be the right choice for me.
The "which one would I prefer to 'wear' " did actually come into it as well. I liked the big nostrils on the side of the turbo, the turbo spoiler and the look of intent of the front air dam on the turbo. The alternative looked a tad naked[:-]
So the cost (997 GTS more expensive), the look I wanted and the torque were there three things that swayed my decision strongly in favour of one over the other. Obviously there's lots of downsides to an older car, but with only 11K miles on the clock I decided to take the risk. Fingers crossed!
I did start to think about 2 years ago whilst still enjoying the Spyder.
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=714265
Prior I had had a GTS on loan for a week whilst my Cayman was 'forgotten about' in an OPC workshop. It was an awesome car but:
I never wanted to test drive a turbo whilst owning the Spyder because I knew the performance would distract me from the rest of my time with the Spyder. I sold the Spyder and didn't get around to test driving a turbo before the car that became mine came on the market many miles away in Edinburgh. On paper, 680Nm from 1950rpm with a flat peak torque curve vs 440Nm at 5600rpm (the latter I had already driven), didn't need a test drive. I put a deposit on it and bought a one way train ticket.
It's a GT car that handles brilliantly for a GT car and coming from the very agile Spyder, i'm very impressed and have no regrets at all.
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=714265
Prior I had had a GTS on loan for a week whilst my Cayman was 'forgotten about' in an OPC workshop. It was an awesome car but:
ORIGINAL: flat6
To echo your point, if this is the difference between a 997.1 manual turbo and a 997.2 PDK turbo, for overtaking etc. you can never have too much power/torque and WILL make use of it [ORIGINAL: tscaptain
For me it's not about top speed but 30-70 acceleration. GTS/Spyder not in the same ball park I'm afraid! I have to admit to beefing up the ARB's front and rear on mine which make it that much better than the stock car through the bendy bits.
Just a footnote about the PDK though. You can still very easily redline if using paddles/buttons under "sporty" acceleration[
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyrWbrgl8c
I think a test drive in a turbo will clinch it. The GTS was very fast, but when caught in the wrong gear (blaming the PDK 'economy' mode) it was pretty docile until getting back into it's power band. In sport and sport plus mode there were no complaints. I'm hoping/expecting the turbo to address that with its much wider torque band, as I don't like driving PDK in sport or sport plus mode all the time (same would go for tiptronic on a gen 1 in sport mode).
I still think these gen 1 turbo's are the bargain supercar of the moment, but i'm going to test both it and a gen 2 PDK and then decide whether to hang on for a PDK. As I say, it's a couple of years away but I like to plan way in advance [
Thanks
I never wanted to test drive a turbo whilst owning the Spyder because I knew the performance would distract me from the rest of my time with the Spyder. I sold the Spyder and didn't get around to test driving a turbo before the car that became mine came on the market many miles away in Edinburgh. On paper, 680Nm from 1950rpm with a flat peak torque curve vs 440Nm at 5600rpm (the latter I had already driven), didn't need a test drive. I put a deposit on it and bought a one way train ticket.
It's a GT car that handles brilliantly for a GT car and coming from the very agile Spyder, i'm very impressed and have no regrets at all.
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