718 Cayman S test drive and PDK or Manual

Dick Dastardly · Jul 15, 2016

Hi,

Have ordered a 718 Cayman S and my initial thought was to go for a manual transmission as car will mostly be used for weekends and trips rather than daily driver. I am due to drive a Boxster S with PDK which is what the dealer has. I enquired about a manual test drive and the response was that they did not have a manual car in their group. I guess there is more money in them selling me a PDK?

Is anyone aware of any dealers locally who have a Boxster S manual demo car? I am based on the Notts/Leicestershire border. I have enquired with PC Leicester but am waiting a reply.

Also would be pleased to hear any views on PDK or manual, although I guess this is down to personal preference. I would also be looking to spec sports chrono.

I have viewed two Cayman S reviews on you tube ( Autocar and Pistonheads)and they both highly rated the manual. However I don't always take heed of these type of reviews as it is one thing being given a fully loaded press car for the day and another matter buying and driving it on a long term basis.

Thanks

Neil

Twinfan · Jul 15, 2016

I'd be going for PDK in a 718 if I was buying. Both Sport and Sport Plus modes have rev matching now, which is fine if you're fully on it in a manual but it seems far better suited to PDK. I think the car is designed to have PDK now it's a turbo to be honest so I'd go for that.

Dick Dastardly · Jul 15, 2016

Thanks for your opinion, I think that in manual the downshifts are rev matched by the sports chrono when in sport and sport plus modes.

Not quite sure I follow the logic of why a turbo engine would mean that it is designed to have PDK.

tcreswick · Jul 15, 2016

I'm really curious about this auto rev-matching. It's not something I've ever used, but conceptually it sounds really awful.

For me, so much of the pleasure of driving a manual car well is being able to hit those perfect double-clutch down-shifts. At the point that the car is doing that for me, I think I'd rather just have the full PDK.

I drove a new 718 PDK for a couple of days while my 987 was being serviced. It's certainly fun but I get a real kick out of having a car that is raw and mechanical. The PDK felt too much like playing Gran Tourismo.

Also, for what it's worth I found the down-shifts to be a lot less smooth than I can achieve on a manual transmission, especially down-shifting to 1st gear. That really surprised me.

woodstock · Jul 15, 2016

http://www.autoexpress.co...;utm_source=newsletter

Twinfan · Jul 15, 2016

I think the engine characteristics are better suited to the fast change of PDK - keeping the turbo spinning for better response.

Are you sure rev matching is only on Sport if you have the Sports Chrono option? I'd be checking that was the case before buying a manual if it's a deal breaker.

Twinfan · Jul 15, 2016

tcreswick said:
I'm really curious about this auto rev-matching. It's not something I've ever used, but conceptually it sounds really awful.

it's very good in Sports Plus on my GTS when you're "on it", however when pottering about it's daft. I use Sport mode as my default so it's great not to have the matching on my car. This is why I think it's important to bear it in mind.

Motorhead · Jul 15, 2016

David,

For the manual 'box, I believe that rev matching is only available with the Sport Chrono option.

Personally, I'm with Tim on the manual vs PDK spectrum but as always it's a personal choice and a case of try before you buy (if you can).

Jeff

Twinfan · Jul 15, 2016

Thanks Jeff. So it's interesting to note that it now applies to both Sport Plus and Sport mode too (a change from the 981).

fergusor · Jul 22, 2016

I'm in the same position as you, can't decide on manual or PDK for my 718 Cayman (when I eventually get round to ordering it).

Ive always prefered manual, but took a 718 Boxster out from Porsche Nottingham that had PDK and I have to admit I was impressed.

The speed at which it changes gear in auto mode is impressive. And I really liked being able to change gear when I wanted, again with impressive speed.

Another thing i like about the PDK is the better acceleration with Sport Chrono and launch control.

A part of me still wants to have a manual, what with all the reviews saying that a manual is so much better for driver involvement but I just can't get the added performance out of my mind.

I know this doesn't help with your decision but I thought I'd give you my opinion.

Richard.

Dick Dastardly · Jul 22, 2016

Thanks Richard,

I am test driving a 718 Boxster S with PDK from Porsche Nottingham on Monday, but still having no luck in getting a drive in a manual 718 Boxster as a comparison. The tests that I have read all say that the manual is really good(and costs less !) and is probably more involving but I can see the advantages of a PDK as well! Decisions, decisions...

Neil

tcreswick · Jul 22, 2016

The main thing that I noticed in the 718 Boxster (non-S) compared with my 987 Cayman S was that it really bogged down then pulling away from a standstill.

Apparently the variable-vane turbo in the S makes a huge difference to the lag, but it was frustrating not having a clutch to be able to feather the power a bit more aggressively when you want to pull away quickly, without wanting to have to use launch control which is unnecessarily violent.

Ultimately in sport+ mode with your foot to the floor the car was slower than a modern hybrid saloon over the first 20-30 metres. If you drive around town a lot, I think that would get to be quite annoying - for me the nice reminder that I'm driving a quick car is that I can pretty much always pull clear from people at a junction if I need to.

Having said that, I tested the launch control and I can see how that might be addictive. It makes a huge amount of noise but once the turbo is up to pressure it is incredibly quick off the line.

Otherwise in general I thought the PDK was nice on up-shifts, less so on down-shifts (see my comments above). I took this video https://youtu.be/HWL6qrdfvHs at Brands Hatch earlier this week in my manual and I honestly think those downshifts are smoother than the PDK. Anyone have PDK footage for comparison?

I could be tempted by the PDK, but I think I'd want to try a few get-aways from a standing start and see if I was happy with that. I'm mostly biased by the fact that I use my CS as a daily driver, so I really appreciate the performance in the 0-30mph range.

Motorhead · Jul 22, 2016

I sympathise with you Neil - it seems that manual transmission demonstrator cars are as rare as hen's teeth at the PCs.

For what it's worth, I'm firmly in the Ancient Tribe of the Manual Shifters when it comes to something that's going to be used for Fun days and Sundays. There's no doubt that the PDK is an excellent automatic/semi-automatic transmission - and I've driven examples on 987 and 981 Caymans - but I can't say that it would be my first choice when spec'ing a new car.

Hope you enjoy your upcoming 718 drive and let us have your initial impressions.

Jeff

Twinfan · Jul 22, 2016

PDK is by far the more popular choice, hence the demonstrator situation. I also think Porsche have recognised this, and expect the cars to be specced with PDK, so they're designed accordingly.

The world is changing and turbos with double-clutch systems are the way it's heading.

Dick Dastardly · Jul 22, 2016

tcreswick said:
The main thing that I noticed in the 718 Boxster (non-S) compared with my 987 Cayman S was that it really bogged down then pulling away from a standstill.

Apparently the variable-vane turbo in the S makes a huge difference to the lag, but it was frustrating not having a clutch to be able to feather the power a bit more aggressively when you want to pull away quickly, without wanting to have to use launch control which is unnecessarily violent.

Ultimately in sport+ mode with your foot to the floor the car was slower than a modern hybrid saloon over the first 20-30 metres. If you drive around town a lot, I think that would get to be quite annoying - for me the nice reminder that I'm driving a quick car is that I can pretty much always pull clear from people at a junction if I need to.

Having said that, I tested the launch control and I can see how that might be addictive. It makes a huge amount of noise but once the turbo is up to pressure it is incredibly quick off the line.

Otherwise in general I thought the PDK was nice on up-shifts, less so on down-shifts (see my comments above). I took this video https://youtu.be/HWL6qrdfvHs at Brands Hatch earlier this week in my manual and I honestly think those downshifts are smoother than the PDK. Anyone have PDK footage for comparison?

I could be tempted by the PDK, but I think I'd want to try a few get-aways from a standing start and see if I was happy with that. I'm mostly biased by the fact that I use my CS as a daily driver, so I really appreciate the performance in the 0-30mph range.

Yes from what I have read the VV Turbo does make quite a difference, is suppose that is what you are paying for on the S.

Enjoyed the Brands Hatch video, what camera and software we you using ?

Steve Brookes · Jul 22, 2016

tcreswick said:
Otherwise in general I thought the PDK was nice on up-shifts, less so on down-shifts (see my comments above). I took this video https://youtu.be/HWL6qrdfvHs at Brands Hatch earlier this week in my manual and I honestly think those downshifts are smoother than the PDK. Anyone have PDK footage for comparison?

Here's a comparison for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVPZjA8Iey8 It's some footage from Donington. I'm using paddle shifting. The biggest downshifts are into the chicane after the Dunlop straight (not sure if it's called that now since the dunlop bridge was removed!). At the time, the car had no sport buttons so shifts are normal speed and very smooth in my opinion. Since I've had Sport plus fitted shifts are quicker and more savage but I've only had chance to try it on the road so far. I can smooth out the downshifts with Heel and toe (yes it IS possible before anyone asks!) but haven't tried it on track yet while I'm still learning the differences of the PDK box compared to my previous manual.

BTW enjoyed your footage of Brands. [

]

tcreswick · Jul 22, 2016

Didn't mean to hijack the thread with track footage.

It's shot with a Garmin VIRB XE and using an OBDLink LX module for the vehicle data. I also fitted a quick release mount in the centre radiator grille at the front (below the license plate). There some footage from that here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD6lMepI4h0 but the telemetry wasn't working the whole time (jump to +7 mins in) and youtube did something weird to the video quality. I need to do more experimentation with that, but the camera angle is pretty cool.

tcreswick · Jul 22, 2016

The up-shifts are very nice. It's frustrating waiting for the revs to drop in the manual before you can get on the power, a lot of that is due to the clutch delay switch I think.

Sounds like your downshifts are quite late in the braking so there isn't a big rev blip so it's hard to judge how smooth that is when there's an aggressive down-shift. It sounds nice though.

Steve Brookes · Jul 22, 2016

The late braking is a fault of mine and partly down to the Pagid RS29s being so good. I could do with braking a little earlier and a little less so that I carry more speed in. I'm still on the adjustment curve from tracking my old 964 that liked a late brake and trail to get it to turn in better. Enjoying the new challenge though and off to Spa next week to get some more practice!

Buddy · Jul 24, 2016

Regarding the choice between Manual and PDK, I used to hate automatics in the days of slow to engage torque convertors, they felt like you were driving with a slipping clutch! Then along came the PDK and I test drove the gen2 987 and the gen2S with PDK at the PEC unfortunately not both on the handling circuit but I did rather like its there was no slip and I could select the gears much the same as a Porsche Tiptronic, when the 981 came out I drove the 2.9 at Silverstone again and also the S for a 24 hr loan they had the switches on the wheel which while it has it's quirks enables shifts up and down with either hand.

When it came time that I was ready to trade my gen1 Cayman S manual and move on I still preferred the 987 in many ways, the shape, the interior and I wanted the PDK, unfortunately no throttle blip and the PC say it can't be updated which I suspect is just wanting to get us onto the later cars. As I've now driven a few thousand miles I have recognised both the good and bad of the PDK bearing in mind that mine is the earlier type with the gear indicator in the right hand dial not the later rev counter position, it took me some time to get the mindset of right hand up left down as I had only driven PDK with switch change previously, the big problem with downshifts is going from second to first, it's a big step and can cause a lurch, revs match anyway but it is a big step down, going up it seems well spaced on the first to second gears and so I tend not to shift to first much above a standstill, with throttle blip as in the later cars it will probably not seem so bad, on the rare occasions that I use auto it is in sport mode and usually around town or occasionally when the motorway is congested and a bit stop go. In these conditions a manual can be somewhat wearying and with the boredom of such traffic unpleasant.

I like to do long distance runs in Europe and just returned from Le Mans and the Classic weekend, when cruising on autoroutes or driving the older roads and coming to an overtaking point the PDK in manual means I can downshift more rapidly etc and just press the go pedal, gone to say that PDK is not involving is to be something of a luddite even though I still drive a manual much of the time and have good technique in the heel and toe shafts I prefer even my early PDK to a manual box and the 981 manual I drove a few years ago was the best manual change I'd ever driven but the PDK is quicker and used properly can be involving but so much quicker.

The one fault I've noticed in driving my PDK is that sometimes following a long enthusiastic run in manual that if I then put it into auto for the town for one or two changes at low speed in sport mode it can tend to stutter in the shifts then it settles down.