'73 RS History

[epoch911]

Hi...wondered if your collective wisdom could help me out. Am going to view a 73RS on Sunday and wondered if anyone had any history / advice on the car. This is what I know...Reg: LNV 529L. LHD. White / Red. Chassis 911 360 0595. Engine 665 0549 (I know it's not matching but don't know what year / spec etc this engine is). 5 Owners (last for 16 years). Was raced under the management of Neil Bainbridge but had an accident (not sure which year) at which point some body panels were replaced and the engine was swapped out. Recaro seats refurbed. Lightweight trim to doors. No rollcage. Receipts show extensive mechanical and interior refurbish work was done in the early nineties by Jaz Porsche Ltd. There was a £7921.45 engine rebuild by Mech Repairs in June 2001. The gearbox was replaced in 2003 by Legends, plus a service, and the bills show more work was done by them in February 2006.

Now does anyone have any more info on this car? I am very interested (and very fortunate to be even contemplating) and am looking for a car that is not perfect (budget!) - which this clearly isn't. I like the fact it has a race history (as it will never lose that) and am not sure I like cars that have been restored to within an inch of their lives...a bit of patina is always good and the car has clearly been doing what it was designed to do...no museum piece. It is also at the upper level of my budget. Have thought about Replicas but I just can't do it...

Advice and any knowledge would be most welcome.
Many thanks
Ant

 

[Bertroex]

Hello Ant,

Exciting vehicle you are describing. Engine number 665 0549 refers to a Model Year 1975 impact bumper Carrera 2.7, which has exactly the same engine (and gearbox) as the 2.7 RS, i.e type 911/83 2.7 litres, mechanical injection, 210 ps.

Years ago these impact bumper cars were very very cheap to pick up and for example many targa's have been butchered for their engine and gearbox and rear trailing arms. In fact, its still happening today.[]

Anyhow, there are a lot of early 911 boys and girls with very good memories over at DDK: www.ddk-online.com ; you might have further reactions there.

Best of luck and keep us posted,


Bert

 

[epoch911]

Hi Bert
Thanks for the engine info ...will post on DDK. will certainly keep you posted...you'll hear me squealing from here to kingdom come if I actually get it!

 

[Alex Postan]

Buy it and enjoy it - but pay the price for what it is. What you describe is a bitsa.
Great cars bitsas, particularly because they are just as good as the pedants chosen versions and not only are they the right price but you need have no fear about using and abusing them.
Judge it on its condition and if you are going to keep it for 5, 10 or 15 years, who's counting? It's only money.

 

[Bertroex]

ORIGINAL: epoch911
you'll hear me squealing from here to kingdom come if I actually get it!

[][][]

Hope it works out!

Bert

 

[Nick Moss]

There is no need to ask on DDK, there is plenty of RS knowledge here! A call to Josh Sadler should give you all the info you need.

I have not seen the car, but it was advertised for sale by Legends in August 2006. Here is their description and pictures:

This superb Porsche 2.7 RS touring is available. Genuine LHD model, UK registered car is available to enjoy.

A correct and UK RS registry confirmed car , chassis 595 while not a matching number car , is a genuine RS Touring model.
This superb example has recently received work to its transmission and also benefits from an recent engine refresh.
The car is presented with some factory lightweight extras; the car is available having enjoyed by its long term owner..
Having received attention by marques specialists including Jaz Porsche, Autofarm and ourselves at Legends etc.

The car can be supplied with FIA papers if required making it most eligible for the many historic events.

These RS Porsches are fast appreciating collectors cars and will always be the Porsche to own as they are everyday usable classics.

With matching number cars well into six figure sums already , this motorcar is a very well priced RST.

A classic and iconic motor car for only....

Please note this car is featured on the may issue of Classiccars magazine ( on the front cover).

 

[Nick Moss]

I do know the car now has Recaros fitted, I refurbished them.

 

[epoch911]

Thanks for all the replies...this has really helped. Looks like a great car to me...FIA papers interesting too. Notice there is no mirror...easy thing to fit?
Ant

 

[Nick Moss]

The Legends advert says: "The car can be supplied with FIA papers if required making it most eligible for the many historic events". That does not mean it has the papers and may need some money spent to get them.

 

[epoch911]

true. Will look into that. Will try to call Josh tomorrow and see if he can recall any details...would love to know a little of its race history
Ant

 

[Alex Postan]

So Josh's purple prose confirms that it is a bitsa.
And it seems to be running at a strange front ride height.
So why is he saying that it can be supplied with FIA papers? What he means is that if you want them, he'll put the car through the process.
At whose cost?
Buy it and enjoy it.
I'd say, without having inspected the corrosion, £39,500. []
(edited , in case of misunderstanding to show that I was not totally serious!)

 

[oliver]

#595 should have engine #6630607.

M472 Touring. Supplied to Swizerland in white/red with vinyl/corduroy. Options - HRW, LSD, Recaro Sports Seats with Head Rests, Radio Prep, Elec Windows, Long Range Spot Lights. Currently registered in the UK (LNV 529L).

The market expects originality and, although this car could be restored to original spec., it will always have the stigma of non-matching nos.

There is no race history recorded in the Starkey book.

 

[Bertroex]

ORIGINAL: Nick Moss

There is no need to ask on DDK, there is plenty of RS knowledge here!

[]

Bert

 

[Nick Moss]

So Josh's purple prose confirms that it is a bitsa.

Alex, the text in italics above is from the old Legends advert, not from Josh. I will change the layout so that it's a bit clearer

 

[Alex Postan]

Thanks Nick, I've edited mine as well.
My prejudice is that there is too much price premium placed on originality and that the car that we are talking about will give the enjoyment and driving experience of either a completely authentic car or a good recreation.
Looking at the pictures, the reason it looks to be sitting too high at the front is that it is on 7s and 8s with low profile tyres. I have 7s and 8s but have found that my car goes far better in everyday conditions on 6s and 7s fitted with taller tyres.
Premium values are justified where a car is virtually unique (and not mass produced like a 2.7 RS) and where it has a significant history.
I once had a ten year old Honda Gold Wing with 763 miles on the clock. I made a profit on it but the only enjoyment that I could get from it was to look at it. Any driving was devaluing it. :-(

PS Epoch911, just buy the car! It is the things that one doesn't do that become regrets......and it's only money

 

[jason]

Out of interest where would this be priced at then?

If very very good reps with original 73RS engines can be 40k and original good condition tourings be £100k....where would something like this sit?

 

[Nick Moss]

If very very good reps with original 73RS engines can be 40k

I know of one that sold to a dealer for over £50K, it was then advertised at £57.5K and sold straight away. I don't know how much the RS under discussion is advertised at but it was for sale a year ago for £70K.

 

[epoch911]

I don't know how much the RS under discussion is advertised at but it was for sale a year ago for £70K.

Deep breath..87K
Now I don't have any intention of paying this full price but it does beg the question of where prices are going...Jason I think prices have also moved up from the 100K you mentioned for original RST.

As for the stigma attached with non matching numbers...I guess it depends on what you are after. I want to get on the RS ladder (because it represents a childhood dream) but can't afford a matching numbers. A rep will always be a rep (and not massively appealing to me) so this sits in the middle. The whole question of orginality leaves me a bit cold too...if something has been fully restored, where does that leave its originality?

For example...
A mate of mine has an original Bugatti Type 35. Out of the factory in 1924. Full GP race history. Possibly the most beautiful car I have ever seen (and been in) but hardly a showroom condition car and generally knocked about over the years...bits replaced from racing etc. Body panels, engine and gearbox components. But it is still THAT car. And it always will be. My mate has pics of it 1 month after it left the factory and it was beaten up even then! How does this compare then to the "restored" cars that are so highly polished they look like they have never been out of the museum. The bolts are chromed as are the wheel knock-ons. Which would you want to own? (not which is more valuable) Yes matching numbers counts for a lot, but then surely the price reflects it...

Anyone sense I am talking myself into it?

Ant

 

[Alex Postan]

All early 911 shells corrode very badly. Most cars have had major work done to them and so you must arrange for an experienced engineer who is used to these shells to examine the car really very carefully - not for originality but to make sure that you are not facing another big bill.
That said, if you've got the money, buy it - and then buy some 7s and 8s to run it on.
All historic car values are a speculation and in turbulent times they can fall in value. Recognise that you are buying enjoyment and forget the concept of "investment".
Make sure that the invoice states exactly what it is in great detail so that if it turns out to be in any way misrepresented, then you have the chance of some comeback.

 

[Alex Postan]

ORIGINAL: Nick Moss

If very very good reps with original 73RS engines can be 40k

I know of one that sold to a dealer for over £50K, it was then advertised at £57.5K and sold straight away. I don't know how much the RS under discussion is advertised at but it was for sale a year ago for £70K.

I suspect that I will have to revise my agreed insurance values - yet again[:-]